Swiss - an ethnicity?

[Marino]

The maps seemed intruiguing to me at first sight as well, taking into account that Geneva (Calvinism) respectively Zurich (Zwinglianism) were not only strongholds but the very birthplaces of, at least in the case of Calvinism, quite radical forms of protestantism. However, these maps might prove true nowadays, maybe even due to Islamic immigration.

But the French who are also Catholics in France and Belgium are rather not so homogeneous in Western Switzerland. Perhaps atheism has taken over, as the map has a lot of regions, specially in the border areas, that are mixed with no denomination in the clear majority.

Regarding the large canton of Vaud (German: Waadt), the reason is, that its territory was until 1798 (invasion of Napoleon ---> Helvetic Republic) under the rule of Berne, which itself is - except the Jura territorries - almost exclusively protestant (--> cuius regio, eius religio), and, interestingly, also the most Nordoid canton of the whole confederation according to renowned anthropologists.

As federalism and federalist attitudes are still very strong in Switzerland, there is according to my personal experience only a minority of Swiss who call themselves "Swiss" in the first place. First and foremost, a "real" (what is a "real" Swiss nowadays anyway?) Swiss is from Zurich or Basel, he is Vaudois, Bernese, Lucernese etc., that's the basic thing. "Switzerland" however is an abstraction in the intuitive perception of most people, a so called "Willensnation", existing by the sheer will of its citizens, i.e. nothing organic but quite an artificial conglomerate of in various respects (language, religion, history, culture) very heterogenous elements. To call oneself "Swiss" in the first place has, at least among city dwellers, something "unsexy", a rural, unprogressive, freshwater kind of undertone. On the other hand, one is mostly some kind of "proud" to be from a certain canton, a certain (larger) city.

What a Swiss will never (or almost never) do nowadays (it was different in the ancient régime) is to call himself "Italian", "French" or - most absurde - "German". It's not that these nations are generally not liked among the group of Swiss speaking the language of the respective nation, but a Swiss still considers himself to be something different than a member of these three bigger nations. This is especially true for the German speaking Swiss: Even if they are not generally hostile to Germans, the latter are seen as a culturally different group with a different language, different way of talking and - last but not least - behaving by the German speaking Swiss. Due to the fact that the country has four language groups, there is an increased sensitivity for difference and a greater "respect", carefulness in everyday contact: The other person could be quite different from me in any respect yet unknown to me, so I have to be cautious in order not to snub him. On the other hand, the German in every day life assumes that his counterpart is in essence like himself. Therefore, he is more assertive, direct, loud and outspoken, something occasionally misunderstood by the (German speaking) Swiss as arrogance and rudeness.

[memobekes]

This is especially true for the German speaking Swiss: Even if they are not generally hostile to Germans, the latter are seen as a culturally different group with a different language, different way of talking and - most important - behaving by the German speaking Swiss.

Thank you for your detailed answer.
I want to ask, is Swiss German a foreign language in the ears of most speakers from Germany?

[Marino]

Thank you for your detailed answer.
I want to ask, is Swiss German a foreign language in the ears of most speakers from Germany?

Well, "Swiss German" is not a language actually, as it does not really exist. What exists are certain dialects, i.e. "Zurichese, Basilese, Bernese, Lucernese, St. Gallese" etc. These are allemanic dialects which are different in various respects from each other.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alemannic_German

Many Southern Germans, who are themselves of Alemannic origin, understand at least some of the Swiss dialects. Swabians for example have a dialect quite similar to the Northeastern/utmost Northern Swiss (St. Gallen, Thurgovia, Schaffhausen) actually. The farther North you go, the less people understand them. A Northern German understands virtually nothing, whereas Austrians for instance might even confound a Swiss german dialect with Dutch. Germans like to make fun about the Swiss because of their "funny" dialect on one hand and their way (generally slower, less dashing and coarser) to speak high German on the other hand.

[memobekes]

@Marino

This clip would be interesting to listen to. It contrasts the German spoken by German and Swiss guests on a talk programme:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Prew3Zi-qIQ

The man with the glasses at 0:51 speaks in a distinctive Swiss German accent. I don't think many Germans from Germany would understand him, am I right?

[Marino]

The man with the glasses at 0:51 speaks in a distinctive Swiss German accent.

No, not at all. He is a "romand", a French speaking Swiss from a French speaking canton. In the video, he is speaking high German ("Hochdeutsch" or, as a Swiss might say, "Schriftsprache") with a French accent. So, Germans will understand him.

The French speaking Swiss learn high German at school. They generally only speak high German and don't understand the Swiss German dialects, except if they are "bilingue" (have been raised bilingually and therefore speak French as well as a Swiss German dialect).

However, there are myriads of weird mixtures between French and Swiss German dialects, all of which sound extremely funny for the native speaker.

[Agrippa]

Typical for such branches which split off - to a certain degree - from the main branch, is, that they might make a big deal about their "independence" inside of their larger group, so if a Swiss meets a German or Austrian in particular.

But in the end, they know quite well whose closest related to them and appreciate certain similarities, especially in the face of more foreign elements and under pressure.

Yet, one thing is clear, while the Swiss Germans are now more independent from greater German for hundreds of years, the 2nd World War made it even less fashionable and desirable being German.

The same happened, just in a much shorter period of time and more radical way, in Austria.

Anyway, ethnically, they are Germans, politically and identity otherwise, they are Swiss Germans or Swiss, but thats just a branch of the greater German ethnolinguistic group.

[_______]

switzerland is barely a country

[The Lawspeaker]

switzerland is barely a country

Ever been there ? I doubt it.

[Peyrol]

Are the Swiss an ethnicity or simply a group of the ethnicities of surrounding nations (French, German, Italian, with Romanch only in Switzerland)?

So are the French-speaking Swiss of Romandie French or Swiss, and what is the denonym? Romandians?
What of the Swiss Germans? Just Germans or Allemanics?

A ethnicity speaking many different native languages seems quite strange in the traditional sense, usually an ethnicity speaks one native language and usually some foreign ones too, like the Welsh speak Welsh as natives and English which was imposed somewhat.

Switzerland's terrain could have made it quite isolated for large scale movements of people in the past which probably accounts for how French survived in Romandie, Romanch in the high mountains, Italian in the South and Allemanic German amongst the Swiss Germans.

So who are the Swiss? Who do they see themselves as? The same as the surrounding nations, just a different country or as a unique, mutlilingual ethnicity.
Ethnicity or a group of ethnicities?

(If there's any Swiss on here, their opinion obviously counts for a lot)

Italian-swiss are virtually identical to the lombards, so i can definitely say that aren't a different ethnicity from us.

I can't talk about the others ethnic groups.

[_______]

Ever been there ? I doubt it.

to zurich and geneva, yes. but i was being a dick. hard to respect any nation without its own language