Remembering Attila the Hun

[Joe McCarthy]

I recently finished John Man's bio 'Attila: The Barbarian King Who Challenged Rome'. I recommend it.

Here is an excerpt from Wiki on one of the highlights of Attila's career, which included a good deal of wrecklessness that may have saved Europe from his clutches:

In 450, Attila proclaimed his intent to attack the Visigoth kingdom of Toulouse by making an alliance with Emperor Valentinian III. He had previously been on good terms with the Western Roman Empire and its influential general Flavius Aëtius. Aëtius had spent a brief exile among the Huns in 433, and the troops Attila provided against the Goths and Bagaudae had helped earn him the largely honorary title of magister militum in the west. The gifts and diplomatic efforts of Geiseric, who opposed and feared the Visigoths, may also have influenced Attila's plans.

However, Valentinian's sister was Honoria, who, in order to escape her forced betrothal to a Roman senator, had sent the Hunnish king a plea for help – and her engagement ring – in the spring of 450. Though Honoria may not have intended a proposal of marriage, Attila chose to interpret her message as such. He accepted, asking for half of the western Empire as dowry. When Valentinian discovered the plan, only the influence of his mother Galla Placidia convinced him to exile, rather than kill, Honoria. He also wrote to Attila strenuously denying the legitimacy of the supposed marriage proposal. Attila sent an emissary to Ravenna to proclaim that Honoria was innocent, that the proposal had been legitimate, and that he would come to claim what was rightfully his.

Attila interfered in a succession struggle after the death of a Frankish ruler. Attila supported the elder son, while Aëtius supported the younger.[16] Attila gathered his vassals—Gepids, Ostrogoths, Rugians, Scirians, Heruls, Thuringians, Alans, Burgundians, among others and began his march west. In 451, he arrived in Belgica with an army exaggerated by Jordanes to half a million strong. J.B. Bury believes that Attila's intent, by the time he marched west, was to extend his kingdom – already the strongest on the continent – across Gaul to the Atlantic Ocean.[17]

On April 7, he captured Metz. Other cities attacked can be determined by the hagiographic vitae written to commemorate their bishops: Nicasius was slaughtered before the altar of his church in Rheims; Servatus is alleged to have saved Tongeren with his prayers, as Saint Genevieve is to have saved Paris.[18]Lupus, bishop of Troyes, is also credited with saving his city by meeting Attila in person.[19]

Aëtius moved to oppose Attila, gathering troops from among the Franks, the Burgundians, and the Celts. A mission by Avitus, and Attila's continued westward advance, convinced the Visigoth king Theodoric I (Theodorid) to ally with the Romans. The combined armies reached Orléans ahead of Attila,[20] thus checking and turning back the Hunnish advance. Aëtius gave chase and caught the Huns at a place usually assumed to be near Catalaunum (modern Châlons-en-Champagne). The two armies clashed in the Battle of Châlons, whose outcome is commonly considered to be a strategic victory for the Visigothic-Roman alliance. Theodoric was killed in the fighting and Aëtius failed to press his advantage, according to Edward Gibbon and Edward Creasy, because he feared the consequences of an overwhelming Visigothic triumph as much as he did a defeat. From Aëtius' point of view, the best outcome was what occurred: Theodoric died, Attila was in retreat and disarray, and the Romans had the benefit of appearing victorious.

What are your thoughts on this momentous but enigmatic figure?

[Joe McCarthy]

This is kinda funny and a bit of irony even if it's unserious.

I kept in touch with both of them during the following weeks. On one occasion I came across Jeno in the Peartree and we got talking. I gradually gathered that it was not only him, but that the whole of Hungary was in the same mess. Hungary had become fascist for pragmatic reasons during the Second World War, but Hitler had not really encouraged their contribution, and these spurned have-a-go fascists have suffered from a national crisis of confidence ever since. Yet in the absence of any credible Hungarian strongmen of their own, they have been unexpectedly saved from a plunge into self-loathing by the revival of interest in a chap named Attila.

Attila the Hun was a crusading freedom fighter who had liberated Europe from the tyranny of the Romans, briefly establishing a vast Enlightened empire which had spread from the Black Sea to the Basque country. This was a civilisation in flower – the Huns had at one point even developed cars and televisions – but they had been betrayed, stabbed in the back by Jews or gypsies, and Europe had duly returned to the Dark Ages. Moreover, liberal historians had since connived to rob Attila of his entitled place in history, even daring to insinuate that this pioneering statesman was really a lowly barbarian who could scarcely use a knife and fork.

“But nobody knows anything about Attila…” I was at one point stupid enough to interject.

It turned out that one could go on to the internet and buy a great list of serious academic books full of information about Attila’s life. Jeno recounted, for example, that Attila was famously buried beside the River Tisza, in three coffins made of iron, silver, and gold.

[gandalf]

It makes me think that twice people living in what is now France
save the European Culture :

* Battle of Catalaunic fields saw the defeat of the Huns

* Battle of Poitiers saw the defeat of the Sarazins

" No twice without a third " a French proverb .

[Treffie]

What are your thoughts on this momentous but enigmatic figure?

I always wonder what he actually looked like. Seems like no-one can decide

[Joe McCarthy]

It makes me think that twice people living in what is now France
save the European Culture :

* Battle of Catalaunic fields saw the defeat of the Huns

* Battle of Poitiers saw the defeat of the Sarazins

" No twice without a third " a French proverb .

I know it's tempting to romanticize these things but had Attila not made the mad demand that he receive half of the Western Roman Empire as a dowry in the Honoria business, the Visigoths would not have had Roman assistance, which means they would almost certainly have been smashed and Attila's rule would have extended to the Atlantic.

[Pallantides]

Attila was great man for sure.
In the words of Bram Stoker's Dracula "What devil or what witch was ever so great as Attila, whose blood is in these veins?!"

[Joe McCarthy]

Attila was great man for sure.
In the words of Bram Stoker's Dracula "What devil or what witch was ever so great as Attila, whose blood is in these veins?!"

I find it fascinating that he is a national hero in Hungary and they even romanticize him as a father of the nation even while the Magyars know very well where they came from. It's also interesting that the surge in interest in Attila seemed to accompany the rise of fascism in Hungary.

It might be interesting to see Hungarians square this Attila adulation with being 'Good Europeans'.

[Osweo]

I always wonder what he actually looked like. Seems like no-one can decide

As a likely product of Tungusid/Ugrian/Sarmatian mixture, possibly summat in this spectrum;





But my money's on some sort of semblance to this sexy beast;

(Looks like my Uncle Steve)

[Joe McCarthy]

It's been argued that had Attila been successful and not died the Huns would eventually have been absorbed into the broader European gene pool but Europe would have developed along more Asian-Hunnish cultural lines. Would this have had any benefits?

[BeerBaron]

It's been argued that had Attila been successful and not died the Huns would eventually have been absorbed into the broader European gene pool but Europe would have developed along more Asian-Hunnish cultural lines. Would this have had any benefits?

No, and white people shouldn't forget that asians, china specifically, are a viable competitor. The issue shouldn't be taken lightly, the blacks and arabs will never have world power, the asians will though.