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Thread: Marseilles is now 30-40% Muslim. Excessive violence, riots, and rapes!

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wulfhere View Post
    You're speaking as if the colonies had some sort of separate right to existence, and weren't actually colonies.

    The American Revolution was a disaster. Imagine how powerful the Anglosphere might be today if it was still politically united? The USA would never have had to import loads more blacks, and loads of other crap, to make up its numbers, either.
    There's no reason why we can't have improved ties in the Anglosphere even today. I favor open immigration, for example.

    Still, the British brought in blacks and non-British immigrants before independence. Why should we believe they wouldn't have continued to had there been no revolution?

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    Veteran Member Wulfhere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe McCarthy View Post
    There's no reason why we can't have improved ties in the Anglosphere even today. I favor open immigration, for example.

    Still, the British brought in blacks and non-British immigrants before independence. Why should we believe they wouldn't have continued to had there been no revolution?
    The numbers of blacks and others brought in after the Revolution massively increased, because the Americans needed people to fill up the vast areas they took over. Had this expansion been carried out under the British Empire, those areas could have been filled up mainly with people from the British Isles, as happened in Canada and Australia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wulfhere View Post
    The numbers of blacks and others brought in after the Revolution massively increased, because the Americans needed people to fill up the vast areas they took over. Had this expansion been carried out under the British Empire, those areas could have been filled up mainly with people from the British Isles, as happened in Canada and Australia.
    The US didn't bring in African slaves to increase it's human population. They were basically two legged oxen or mules used as farm labor. They weren't brought in as settlers. In the Southern colonies, where most blacks were, they weren't allowed to vote, and 99% of them couldn't own property, just the rare freedman could.

    After the American Revolution, there was continued European immigration, in fact, I believe it increased.

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    Quote Originally Posted by leibowitz View Post
    The US didn't bring in African slaves to increase it's human population. They were basically two legged oxen or mules used as farm labor. They weren't brought in as settlers. In the Southern colonies, where most blacks were, they weren't allowed to vote, and 99% of them couldn't own property, just the rare freedman could.

    After the American Revolution, there was continued European immigration, in fact, I believe it increased.
    But they widened the net so that all Europeans could go there, even Southern Europeans, eventually leading to the Anglo-Saxons becoming a minority. Was that a good idea?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wulfhere View Post
    The numbers of blacks and others brought in after the Revolution massively increased, because the Americans needed people to fill up the vast areas they took over. Had this expansion been carried out under the British Empire, those areas could have been filled up mainly with people from the British Isles, as happened in Canada and Australia.
    I don't have the numbers but I doubt there were more blacks brought in after 1776 than before. The British Empire outlawed the slave trade in 1807. The US did so in 1808. Where's the big improvement there?

    On the immigration front the US used Irish which Britain itself would have likely done. The other big component was Germans, which Britain itself had done.

    In sum, I see little evidence of significant changes in demographics. What is very possible though is that there would have been no westward expansion at all as the Royal Proclamation Act of 1763 had banned it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe McCarthy View Post
    I don't have the numbers but I doubt there were more blacks brought in after 1776 than before. The British Empire outlawed the slave trade in 1807. The US did so in 1808. Where's the big improvement there?

    On the immigration front the US used Irish which Britain itself would have likely done. The other big component was Germans, which Britain itself had done.

    In sum, I see little evidence of significant changes in demographics. What is very possible though is that there would have been no westward expansion at all as the Royal Proclamation Act of 1763 had banned it.
    As in the case of Canada, the westward expansion would have resumed soon enough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wulfhere View Post
    But they widened the net so that all Europeans could go there, even Southern Europeans, eventually leading to the Anglo-Saxons becoming a minority. Was that a good idea?
    No, it wasn't, yet I see little evidence the British wouldn't have done the same thing. After all, America's Founders, such as Franklin, didn't even think non-Anglo-Saxons were white, yet we still brought in lots of Continentals.
    Last edited by Joe McCarthy; 10-01-2011 at 11:21 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe McCarthy View Post
    No, it wasn't, yet I see little evidence British wouldn't have done the same thing. After all, America's Founders, such as Franklin, didn't even think non-Anglo-Saxons were white, yet we still brought in lots of Continentals.
    Franklin wrote that non-Saxons were not RED and WHITE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wulfhere View Post
    But they widened the net so that all Europeans could go there, even Southern Europeans, eventually leading to the Anglo-Saxons becoming a minority. Was that a good idea?
    Before the Revolution, in some areas, Anglo-Saxons were the minority, especially in Pennsylvania. I don't have the numbers, but I believe German immigration was on the rise before the Revolution, and perhaps in some years, outnumbering English immigrants. After American independence, large numbers of Germans, British and other northern Europeans continued to go there. Southern and eastern Europeans didn't arrive until late in the 19th century.

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    Between 1790 and 1820 the slave population doubled in the US from around 650,000 to 1.5 million. If there were still large numbers of slaves arriving, the slave population would have increased much more than that. The increase over 3 decades was obviously due to the high birthrate which was the norm back then for slave and non-slave alike.

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