Would Europeans look completely balloon-heads without NF admixture?

[brennus dux gallorum]

In classical 1940s anthropology, "indoeuropean" origins were associated with nordic subtypes, but as we know today dolicho-mesocephaly is strongly associated with NF admixture, nordic types are craniofacially closer to mediterranean types than anything else, and the nations with the lowest NF admixture in Europe are anthropologically baltic instead of nordic

So, is it accurate to say that if NF immigration never occured, Europe would be a continent full of "mariusz pudzianowskies"?

[Immanenz]

Nope, Upper Paleolithic types were also dolicephalic ("Aurignacid" / Predmost etc.) and many pred. Up types are even today. By saying that PIE were mostly meso- dolicho, you already gave also a clue that it cant be only NF types have this trait. PIE were mixed craniometrically otherwise extreme berachyness of Bell Beakers would not be possible- at least that extremly quick change from doli to brachy...

Europe would look different for sure. The main difference would be simply less Med looking people, and i dont mean only pigmentation/ hair colour. There is that "hidden" Gracile Med admix in Central Europe- called "Danubian" and also in the North as well (hidden because its not obvious) by Coon for example.

Sardinians are mostly NF and there are a lot of AlpineMed looking people (what many Berids basically are) and also brachy types here and there. They arent homogenous looking by any means either.

[Oliver109]

Nope, Upper Paleolithic types were also dolicephalic ("Aurignacid" / Predmost etc.) and many pred. Up types are even today. By saying that PIE were mostly meso- dolicho, you already gave also a clue that it cant be only NF types have this trait. PIE were mixed craniometrically otherwise extreme berachyness of Bell Beakers would not be possible- at least that extremly quick change from doli to brachy...

Europe would look different for sure. The main difference would be simply less Med looking people, and i dont mean only pigmentation/ hair colour. There is that "hidden" Gracile Med admix in Central Europe- called "Danubian" (hidden because its not obvious) by Coon for example.

Sardinians are mostly NF and there are a lot of AlpineMed looking people (what many Berids basically are) and also brachy types here and there. They arent homogenous looking by any means either.

Do you think the Native Americans and Mongoloids evolved out of a group that at one time included Cro Magnons?

[WeirdLookingFellow]

wrong thread lol

[Immanenz]

Do you think the Native Americans and Mongoloids evolved out of a group that at one time included Cro Magnons?

They deverged very early and have their own specific admix. You can see it even in some specific shape of skulls in Pamirs even sometimes in Nepalese etc.
Ainu were close to Cro Magnon/ WHG perhabs in looks .

[Oliver109]

They deverged very early and have their own specific admix. You can see it even in some specific shape of skulls in Pamirs even sometimes in Nepalese etc.
Ainu were close to Cro Magnon/ WHG perhabs in looks .

Interesting, what do you mean by specific admix? The Ainu are fascinating, some look almost australoid which leads me to think that they are mainly a blend of Cro Magnon, Australoid and clearly some Mongoloid as well.

[Erronkari]

Nope, Upper Paleolithic types were also dolicephalic ("Aurignacid" / Predmost etc.) and many pred. Up types are even today. By saying that PIE were mostly meso- dolicho, you already gave also a clue that it cant be only NF types have this trait. PIE were mixed craniometrically otherwise extreme berachyness of Bell Beakers would not be possible- at least that extremly quick change from doli to brachy...

Europe would look different for sure. The main difference would be simply less Med looking people, and i dont mean only pigmentation/ hair colour. There is that "hidden" Gracile Med admix in Central Europe- called "Danubian" and also in the North as well (hidden because its not obvious) by Coon for example.

Sardinians are mostly NF and there are a lot of AlpineMed looking people (what many Berids basically are) and also brachy types here and there. They arent homogenous looking by any means either.

Is not a Berid a Cromagnoid UP partly reduced by alpinization and admixture with med elements many times ago?
Because most of them look really less gracile than Alpinids más their traits seem usually more archaic and rougher, and there height higher in my humble opinion.

[Immanenz]

Is not a Berid a Cromagnoid UP partly reduced by alpinization and admixture with med elements many times ago?
Because most of them look really less gracile than Alpinids más their traits seem usually more archaic and rougher, and there height higher in my humble opinion.

True but they have also basically Alpine or AlpineMEd lookign people. But yeah, Paleo Sardinian is a arhaic Med/Cm type, while Berid is the local variant in Iberia which is usually more broader headed or alpinized.

Interesting, what do you mean by specific admix? The Ainu are fascinating, some look almost australoid which leads me to think that they are mainly a blend of Cro Magnon, Australoid and clearly some Mongoloid as well.

Yeah, they are interesting.

I mean by specific admix- other genetic components, Amerindian were more Ancient North Eurasian than strictly European Hunter Gatherer. East Asians have also stronger Denisovan admix etc. I m not really good in East Asian genetic, so i would let others explain it in more detail.

[Erronkari]

True but they have also basically Alpine or AlpineMEd lookign people. But yeah, Paleo Sardinian is a arhaic Med/Cm type, while Berid is the local variant in Iberia which is usually more broader headed or alpinized.

Thank you for your help, friend.
I am strongly ignorant about this subject hehe.
And you are right.... many iberian Berids look really similar to Alpinids.
I can may be find a pair of diferences between them, may be Berids are quite higher, they have more square faced and mesocephalic skull, and could be less tendency to the baldiness than Alpinids.
But properly traits are extremely similar, so Alpinid should be the basis or the main element of iberian Berids.
Thank you for your help again!

[TheMaestro]

You mean potato head? Those are the funniest dudes.