If Germany had won WWII, would Europe be better off today?

[Sahson]

It's also likely that the economic boom the US benefited from in the 1950’s would have taken place in Europe. On that subject, what would have pulled the US out of the Depression, if not WWII?

Wow! One data point and you're jumping for joy
The last time I checked wars only destroy
There was no multiplier, consumption just shrank
As we used scarce resource for every new tank!
Pretty perverse to call that "prosperity"
Rationed meat, rationed butter, a life of austerity
When that war spending ended, your friends cried disaster
Yet the economy thrived and grew faster!

[Laudanum]

I don't think Europe would've been better off. Even if Germany would've won WWII, their dictatorship wouldn't have lasted long. Most dictatorships end with revolutions and become a chaotic anarchy afterwards.

[Hevneren]

Absolutely not. I don't know about others on this forum, but I don't like the idea of pogroms in Eastern Europe, Fascist dictatorship and all Germanic countries becoming vassal states to a new German empire. I think I'll go with not killing every Slav in Europe, living in a police state and being Germany's bitch.

[SwordoftheVistula]

Most dictatorships end with revolutions and become a chaotic anarchy afterwards.

Not always. It could have gone down several other paths:

With WWII, Depression and other crisis over, Germany's leaders set up a democracy within defined limits, setting up an Office for the Protection of the People which operates to investigate groups associated with Marxism-Leninism. Essentially, this is the way post-WWII West Germany went. Pinochet in Chile went the same way, even more so, just turning the country over to a democracy after the crisis was over.

Soviet model: a succession of NSDAP officials hold power after Hitler's death, and some decades later is replaced with a democracy by a peaceful revolution.

Or as in other countries, they set up an elective body which is symbolic at the start but gradually give it more power.

Even if they didn't turn into a democracy, as long as they were not ideological nutcases at the top, like the believers in Vril or whatever, they could have kept the country/region on an even keel.

[Contra Mundum]

Jewish power in Europe would have been destroyed for good. Europe would be far healthier both racially and culturally today. The situation in the east would more complex. Hitler's anti-Slav rhetoric was obvious though and more due to the age old struggle between Slav and German over land.

He admired the Czechs and estimated 50% could be assimilated into greater Germany. The rest would be eradicated. This was based less on race, but mainly on hostility to German occupation.

German scholars and anthropologists were to be sent east to determine who are "racially valuable" regardless of their ethnicity. Those who were not deemed "fit" would be sent farther east and resettled in Siberia. Jews, Gypsies and blacks(if any were found) would not be so fortunate. I think this would have been a good thing for the European part of Russia racially.

The word Aryan was actually rarely used by Hitler and he acknowledged in 1944 that Germans were a mix of Nordic, eastern(Slav) and Mediterranean influences.

[SwordoftheVistula]

A post on another thread illustrates the enormous benefits to the US of this scenario: No Cold War competition with the USSR for the support of the third world or defeat of NS Germany to discredit racialism:

This really says it all:

http://www.ghi-dc.org/files/publicat...n/bu043/91.pdf
The Second World War was probably the most important factor for a
transformation in US race relations in the twentieth century. The experience
of African American soldiers in their fight against fascism brought a
new boost and particular dynamic to the African American civil rights
movement. The American dilemma, defined by Gunnar Myrdal in 1944
as the contradiction between democratic ideology and racist reality,
emerged not only as a domestic problem now but also as a weakness in
the global competition for hearts and minds in the postwar period visà-
vis the Soviet Union./QUOTE]

Leftists and black civil rights activists successfully used Hitlerism as a comparative to American racialism so as to discredit the latter, the Swede Myrdal did much to delegitimize Jim Crow academically, and Soviet pressure in denouncing America as racist thus threatening to Communize the Third World during the Cold War -- those were the main three pressure points that overthrew America's racial system.

[Aces High]

Would Europe be better off today if Germany had gone on to win WWII,

"Ovey" Europeans united under one flag......controlling their own destiny.....not allowing us to be parasites on them......wot a terrible idea"

[Logan]

"Ovey" Europeans united under one flag......controlling their own destiny.....not allowing us to be parasites on them......wot a terrible idea"

Imagine you and your family within such a State, then or now. You might then see that reality is better.

[Wadjet Horus]

With WWII, Depression and other crisis over, Germany's leaders set up a democracy within defined limits, setting up an Office for the Protection of the People which operates to investigate groups associated with Marxism-Leninism. Essentially, this is the way post-WWII West Germany went. Pinochet in Chile went the same way, even more so, just turning the country over to a democracy after the crisis was over.

Historically uninformed assertion, will Hitlers regime resigned after they win the war? Without the jews, communism is not different with national socialism.

There is only one difference between their propagandas: Ns-Racial socialism; Sv-Class struggle and proliteriat socialism. The only difference is the identity , Hitler models is based on nazi racial identity, Stalins based on proletariat identity(soviet counterpart of the aryans), they both promoted foreign conquest and coercion in form enslavement. So it is clear that once Germany won, their myth will become political reality. But political reality may be far from being the realistic reality, to ensure that political reality works, the regime will need to remain in control. Any military success is always brought and maintained by centralized government. Pinochet is just an american puppet, and Chile is a backyard country of no importance it is why the centralized government would give up the power, they have no control over their country, and can gain less from controlling the country than being working for another powerful country the USA.

[antonio]

Taking into account we're talking strictly about Europe (of course USA role as economical multinational power would be severely impaired) it's amazing to see a 33% of negative votes. It's clearly that after a German victory, defeated European powers would be treated by Third Reich as fair as Occidental Germany was actually treated by Allies. And, after a transitory period, a kind of EU would be finally constituted, of course without all the complexes and the bullshit and the phony democracy of the current one. Moreover we, White people living in Europe, would take the preference that we deserve for living in the lands of our elders. Sincerely, it's a funny joke to even consider the other option even on talking just about Occidental side.