Who are the Romanians?

[Sarmale]

Really? I find that extremely difficult to believe. Bukovina is one of the most Slavic influenced regions of Romanians anywhere.

Maybe it's a terminology issue, but Neo-Danubian is a common type throughout the eastern half of Europe, even found as far as Austria, basically the local older types mixed with Slavs that arrived from NE Europe (which in some cases carried assimilated and very diluted Uralic stocks or were high in EHG). In other schemes you instead have things like Gorid (East Alpine) or Balto-Alpine and things like that.

[ioas12]

Really? I find that extremely difficult to believe. Bukovina is one of the most Slavic influenced regions of Romanians anywhere.

Maybe it's a terminology issue, but Neo-Danubian is a common type throughout the eastern half of Europe, basically the local older types mixed with Slavs that arrived from NE Europe (which in some cases carried assimilated Uralic ppl). In other schemes you instead have things like Gorid (East Alpine) or Balto-Alpine and things like that.

Yeah it's one of most most slavic influenced regions in Romania but not as Slavic as you think we are still Balkan ( Palo balkan plus slavic) for example on most dna calculators I get 57 percent slavic and I am pretty typical for my region.

[Sarmale]

Fair enough. Like I said, we can have a lot of variety. Heck, some of us can even look like pseudo-Irish or Welsh.

Anyway, it would be cool if more people actually got tested and we had better insights into the population as a whole. From what I hear, there are still relatively low numbers.

[ioas12]

Fair enough. Like I said, we can have a lot of variety. Heck, some of us can even look like pseudo-Irish or Welsh.

Anyway, it would be cool if more people actually got tested and we had better insights into the population as a whole. From what I hear, there are still relatively low numbers.

I mean we have a decentish Numbers of romanians tested but you right More is always better

[Varda]

https://forum.poreklo.rs/index.php?t...5699#msg195699
But when ancestors of these dukes with own people, arrived to Maramures? Old Russian chronicles tell that king Laszlo asked help from Rome and Constantinople 1284-1285 because he was afraid of Tatar invasion. Significant help came from Ibar area in present day Serbia. These Romanians (Vlachs) from Ibar area, together with Hungarians defeated Tatars in the upper valley of Tisa, since they did not want to return in their homeland king settled them in Maramures.

https://forum.poreklo.rs/index.php?t...5700#msg195700
There is reliable sources except old 'Russian chronicle.' It is more likely they arrived by command of Stefan Milutin. In that time Hungarian king Laszlo IV gave to Dragutin (Milutin's brother) Mačva with Belgrade and regions Soli and Usora in present day northern Bosnia and he ruled these regions independently and called himself Syrmian king. In the same time crisis caused by Tatars in Bulgarian increased... If Serbs or Vlachs were comming from Ibar area to Zakarpatya, to fight for Hungarians, they must have been sent by Serbia not by Byzantine.

https://forum.poreklo.rs/index.php?t...5686#msg195686

In late 13th century entire Ibar river was in Serbia, it was in
Serbia for centuries before that. Chrysobull of Serbian king Milutin from early 14th century refers at Vlach katuns in present day northern Kosovo (river Ibar is there) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Stephen_Chrysobull

This map is interesting in the context of origin of Maramures Romanians and Moldovans from Serbia/Kosovo.

[Sarmale]

Yeah, I'm not sure why they have them taking a separate route north than the rest of Romanians. There are some ideas that the southwest areas like Oltenia, and near Banat, were populated by Vlachs earlier than other areas and it was a gradual series of migrations.

While I believe in some kind of ad-migration (with some remnants of Romance speakers lingering in isolated, unattested villages being added to by more significant migration from the south), I do wonder about how some of the ethnogenesis actually happened afterward.

Particularly when it came to assimilation and absorption of the leftover Cumans:

- Why would those nomadic Turkic people who were once politically dominant in Wallachia as some of the earlier ruling elite decide to start speaking the language of these new Vlach arrivals? The Cumans would have been a proud steppe warrior horse people while the Vlachs were mostly a simpler shepherd people, so what was the appeal or draw there? Simply the larger population number relative to their dwindling numbers? I suppose they were always a minority among a larger European majority of some kind, but I wonder how these things actually happen. I would guess in a gradual fashion. I wonder if there were influential Vlach local chieftains.

- and why do we have very few words of known Turkic (non Ottoman Turkish) origin left in the language? I've done some pretty in-depth linguistic research and there really isn't much there at all.

- in the same vein, why would some of the Slavic speaking populations north of the Danube switch to the Vlach Eastern Romance language over time as they became assimilated into their population (admittedly they did leave a much stronger linguistic mark on the language)?

- I would guess the handful of Turkic derived words were already part of Slavic dialects in the region so were transmitted via that?

- We also don't have much in the way of ancient Gothic (East Germanic) linguistic influences. One would think they would have at least left some remnant on the various layers of populations that occupied Dacia over the centuries

[ioas12]

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