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Thread: What did the Ancient celts look like?

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    Default What did the Ancient celts look like?

    I hope that this hasn't already been posted, if so I apologize. What did the Ancient celts look like before the Norse, Romans, or Germanics came? A celt having red hair is always a big stereotype, however I read somewhere recently that red hair wasn't a true "celtic" trait and that the red hair gene actually came from the Germanics, is this true?

    Anyways, I was just thinking about this today and became curious as to what they looked like before outside influence. thanks

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    Given their most accepted origin region I imagine they looked like Bavarians, Austrians and German Swiss people. So mostly brown hair with some significant red haired and blond people as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boudica View Post
    I hope that this hasn't already been posted, if so I apologize. What did the Ancient celts look like before the Norse, Romans, or Germanics came? A celt having red hair is always a big stereotype, however I read somewhere recently that red hair wasn't a true "celtic" trait and that the red hair gene actually came from the Germanics, is this true?

    Anyways, I was just thinking about this today and became curious as to what they looked like before outside influence. thanks
    I've heard the same things, Boudica Great post. This is something I am interested in as well...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Decimator View Post
    Given their most accepted origin region I imagine they looked like Bavarians, Austrians and German Swiss people. So mostly brown hair with some significant red haired and blond people as well.
    I wouldn't think too far off. A diverse population. Much would depend upon time and place.





    http://www.data-wales.co.uk/celt6.htm

    http://www.buildinghistory.org/dista.../ironage.shtml

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    I guess they were pred. Nordid and Nordid/Cromagnid with Dinarid/Dinaroid influence.
    The first Celts were Nordid and Nordid-Cromagnid with Dinarid admixture. When they expanded they came in contact with more Dinarids, Alpinids and Mediterranid forms. On the long run Alpinid types increased in numbers whereas the original Celtic elite decreased, so when the Romans came to Gallia, the Celts were not the same as they were at the time of their expansion though the Nordid element was still dominant in most regions. Its not by chance Coon designated the typical Nordid "Hallstatt", the early Celtic skulls are as the Reihengraeber or early Slavs mainly Nordid (or at least Nordoid anatomically) in character.
    Population changes in cephalic index, like that of height or weight, can happen in a matter of a few generations under the right conditions(such as famine for example.)

    Last edited by Mordid; 10-26-2011 at 09:51 AM.

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    problaby they weren't homogeneous but for example into the pseudoscience of anthropology brunn, atlanto med ,paleoatlantid or keltic nordids are asociated with celts
    et tenebras invadere cor meum vindicare meas

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    Like I wrote in another thread already:
    The typical original Celt was pred. Nordoid with various amounts of other influences. Mediterranid is hard to distinguish, but morphologically, tendencies towards Dinaroid and Alpinoid were pretty common, especially in the later periods. Which is why "Keltic Nordic" is a low headed Nordoid with Dinaro-Alpinoid/Dinaroid tendencies (mostly Bell Beaker derived) in Coon's system.

    The upper class was more Atlanto-Nordid later too, whereas the average became "mesomesomorph". But not always because of the homogeneity, but rather the variation present.

    In this case it has little (only indirectly) to do with body types and refers to medium face + medium headshape (mesoprosopic + mesocephalic).

    Nordid/Mediterranid/Orientalid/Indid = Aurignacoid = typically leptodolichomorphic.

    Dalofaelid/Berberid = Cromagnid = typically eurydolichomorphic

    Dinarid, Armenid, (Pamirid) = Taurid = typically leptobrachymorphic

    Alpinoid, Osteuropid = Cromagnoid derivatives, reduced forms = typically eurybrachymorphic.

    While many "longheaded" variants are actually mesocephalic (just with a tendency towards dolichocephaly), especially in modern times, the Celtic average (especially in later times) was rather really intermediate by facial and head proportions (on the continent).

    Since they were not all typical Cromagnoids, also not by size and dimension, we have to assume a growing Alpinoid element (Alpinisation) in the later period of various Celtic regions.


    After the expansions regional variation became stronger of course.

    Interestingly, ancient Romans, Celts and Etruscans were proportionally not that different from each other actually.

    Etruscans were just more gracile (Mediterranoid) and approached the more gracile Hallstatt-Celts (gracile Nordoid). Romans were less rangy, shorter, more compact and broader, that was the main difference of Romans vs. Celts, which can be attributed to various factors from more Mediterranid-Alpinoid to nutrition (in Romans).

    Typical skull which could be interpreted as "Keltic Nordic" (in my opinion) from an upper class warrior hill grave from Austria:


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    Last edited by Agrippa; 10-26-2011 at 11:37 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gold_fenix View Post
    problaby they weren't homogeneous but for example into the pseudoscience of anthropology brunn, atlanto med ,paleoatlantid or keltic nordids are asociated with celts
    Indeed, just a variety among those whom speak or spoke Celtic languages. To find what the common phenotypes of the "original" Celtic speakers were you must find where Celtic languages and their predecessor(indo-european) originated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa View Post
    Dinarid, Armenid, (Pamirid) = Taurid = typically leptobrachymorphic
    Doesn't Dinarid have a tendency to mesomorphic?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mordid View Post
    Doesn't Dinarid have a tendency to mesomorphic?
    They have a tendency towards mesomorphy, but are still rather leptomorphic. Also, in that context it refers strictly to the skull/head, like described, it has nothing to do (only indirectly) with the body type.
    Last edited by Agrippa; 10-26-2011 at 02:12 PM.

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