Should we - the Protestants - revert to Catholicism?

[Wulfhere]

I hope you don't mind me asking: Are you a wiccan?

No. I'm a Heathen.

[Wulfhere]

Bullshit.
Monotheism is the truth.
There is only ONE God.
Polytheism is childish.

Thus, he Indo-Aryan Persians traditionally (before Islam) followed Zoroastrianism, another Monotheistic religion. It was a Persian-only religion, and it didn't accept converts.
What do you say about that?

You see, that's what monotheists do. They proclaim to have the TRUTH.

What do I say about Zoroastrianism not accepting converts? Nothing, because I don't give a shit. It's actually a dualist religion rather than strictly monotheist though, since the god of evil is given equal power, unlike in Xianity where the god of evil is subordinate.

[HungAryan]

No. I'm a Heathen.

You mean a neo-Heathen, don't you?
Real Heathens died out 1000 years ago.
Stop being an attention whore.

You see, that's what monotheists do. They proclaim to have the TRUTH.

Multiple gods make no sense.
One God is much more logical.

What do I say about Zoroastrianism not accepting converts? Nothing, because I don't give a shit. It's actually a dualist religion rather than strictly monotheist though, since the god of evil is given equal power, unlike in Xianity where the god of evil is subordinate.

Satan/Lucifer is not a god. He is the Archdevil.
Lucifer was originally an angel - the most handsome of all, according to the Bible - but he rebelled against God, and was banished from Heaven. He and the other renegade Angels became the Demons or Devils, or whatever you call them. Lucifer became the Archdevil or Archdemon, or whatever you call that.
He isn't god of anything.

God is the only god.

[Wulfhere]

You mean a neo-Heathen, don't you?
Real Heathens died out 1000 years ago.
Stop being an attention whore.



Multiple gods make no sense.
One God is much more logical.



Satan/Lucifer is not a god. He is the Archdevil.
Lucifer was originally an angel - the most handsome of all, according to the Bible - but he rebelled against God, and was banished from Heaven. He and the other renegade Angels became the Demons or Devils, or whatever you call them. Lucifer became the Archdevil or Archdemon, or whatever you call that.
He isn't god of anything.

God is the only god.

No, they didn't. Heathenism survived. I could tell you exactly where and amongst whom, too, if you were the slightest bit interested.

What's the difference between angels and gods? I don't mean your definition of "god", but the actual English word - which predates Xianity.

[Unurautare]

No. I'm a Heathen.

Close enough.
Regarding your talk: Christianity in Europe has an European character,it's not like the original jewish cult. As a former Orthodox I consider that religion fits in with European character because it requires very high self control and discipline,but also selfless sacrifice(you won't get anything in return,at best just a spiritual accomplishment) and unlike what Catholics did in the West my people were never forced into it or "officially converted" by a king. The only drawback I can see in it today is that a lot of people perceive it as having to be cuddly and not harsh when it comes to real life situations. That being said I see religions are more of a "way of thinking/perceiving the world".

[HungAryan]

No, they didn't. Heathenism survived. I could tell you exactly where and amongst whom, too, if you were the slightest bit interested.

Allright... I'm all ears.
I bet I'll be hearing some falsified history anyway, but let's hear the story anyway.

What's the difference between angels and gods? I don't mean your definition of "god", but the actual English word - which predates Xianity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God

God is the English name given to a singular being in theistic and deistic religions (and other belief systems) who is either the sole deity in monotheism, or a single deity in polytheism.
God is most often conceived of as the supernatural creator and overseer of the universe. Theologians have ascribed a variety of attributes to the many different conceptions of God. The most common among these include omniscience (infinite knowledge), omnipotence (unlimited power), omnipresence (present everywhere), omnibenevolence (perfect goodness), divine simplicity, and eternal and necessary existence.
God has also been conceived as being incorporeal (immaterial), a personal being, the source of all moral obligation, and the "greatest conceivable existent". These attributes were all supported to varying degrees by the early Jewish, Christian and Muslim theologian philosophers, including Maimonides, Augustine of Hippo, and Al-Ghazali, respectively. Many notable medieval philosophers and modern philosophers have developed arguments for and against the existence of God.

The earliest written form of the Germanic word god comes from the 6th century Christian Codex Argenteus. The English word itself is derived from the Proto-Germanic * ǥuđan. Most linguists agree that the reconstructed Proto-Indo-European form * ǵhu-tó-m was based on the root * ǵhau(ə)-, which meant either "to call" or "to invoke". The Germanic words for god were originally neuter—applying to both genders—but during the process of the Christianization of the Germanic peoples from their indigenous Germanic paganism, the word became a masculine syntactic form.
In the English language, the capitalized form of God continues to represent a distinction between monotheistic "God" and "gods" in polytheism. The English word God and its counterparts in other languages are normally used for any and all conceptions and, in spite of significant differences between religions, the term "God" remains an English translation common to all.. The same holds for Hebrew El, but in Judaism, God is also given a proper name, the tetragrammaton (written YHWH), in origin the name of a Edomite or Midianite deity, Yahweh. In many translations of the Bible, when the word "LORD" is in all capitals, it signifies that the word represents the tetragrammaton. Allāh (Arabic: الله‎ allāh) is the Arabic term with no plural or gender used by Muslims and Arabic speaking Christians and Jews meaning "The God" (with a capital G), while "ʾilāh" (Arabic: إله‎ ellāh) is the term used for a deity or a god in general. God may also be given a proper name in monotheistic currents of Hinduism which emphasize the personal nature of God, with early references to his name as Krishna-Vasudeva in Bhagavata or later Vishnu and Hari

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deity

A deity is a recognized preternatural or supernatural immortal being, who may be thought of as holy, divine, or sacred, held in high regard, and respected by believers.
Deities are depicted in a variety of forms, but are also frequently expressed as having human form. Some faiths and traditions consider it blasphemous to imagine or depict the deity as having any concrete form. They are usually immortal, and are commonly assumed to have personalities and to possess consciousness, intellects, desires, and emotions similar to those of humans. Such natural phenomena as lightning, floods, storms, other ‘acts of God’, and miracles are attributed to them, and they may be thought to be the authorities or controllers of various aspects of human life (such as birth or the afterlife). Some deities are asserted to be the directors of time and fate itself, to be the givers of human law and morality, to be the ultimate judges of human worth and behavior, and to be the designers and creators of the Earth or the universe.

Anything more to say?

[Wulfhere]

Allright... I'm all ears.
I bet I'll be hearing some falsified history anyway, but let's hear the story anyway.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deity


Anything more to say?

Yes. Your first quote refers to the Xian god, and not gods in general.

Actually, I do believe your god exists. I think he was a minor desert god who managed to fool a bunch of slave nations that he was the ruler of the universe.

[HungAryan]

Actually, I do believe your god exists. I think he was a minor desert god who managed to fool a bunch of slave nations that he was the ruler of the universe.

[Magister Eckhart]

Paganism is a piece of shit and lies.
Christianity is the only true religion.

Should Neo-Pagans revert to Christianity? Yes, if only they weren't be so desperate to be "cool" and stand out of the crowd.

I pity everyone who considers himself a pagan.
Seriously? Multiple gods? Come on...

A multitude of rulers is not a good thing. Let there be one ruler, one king.

You make me not want to be Christian.

[Albion]

Thus, the Vatican was openly interfering in the business of the different kingdoms and empires.

The Pope supported the Normans in their invasion of England, for that the Church of Rome can never be forgiven.
We have our own variant of Catholicism now, supposedly Protestant but in reality mostly Catholicism minus the pope (but replaced with the monarch) - basically what you were describing about reforming Catholicism.

The Church of England (Anglican) technically sees itself as "reformed Catholic".

I'd do away with the monarch as head of the church too though, then it'd be near perfection.

Paganism is a piece of shit and lies.
Christianity is the only true religion.

Neo-Paganism is yes. Neo-paganism has little factual basis and is usually mixed full of bullshit.

I'd like to see a nice, authentic group of pagan religions in modern Europe. But sadly we know too little about most of them apart from Roman or Greek religion.

One would probably be better becoming a Roman Pagan since the Indo-European religions were related anyway - you'd probably get a more authentic experience than with a reconstructed Celtic or Germanic religion.
Celtic is the worst. At least with Germanic we have some Icelandic texts. With Celtic all we really have is Roman hearsay.

Should Neo-Pagans revert to Christianity? Yes, if only they weren't be so desperate to be "cool" and stand out of the crowd.

That's about it - the quest to be different.

I pity everyone who considers himself a pagan.
Seriously? Multiple gods? Come on...

I haven't quite brought myself to believe one yet...

any reason for that?

Yes, they're more developed and have better education.

Actually, I do believe your god exists. I think he was a minor desert god who managed to fool a bunch of slave nations that he was the ruler of the universe.

The Abrahamic religions are basically based on the religion of the Ancient Middle Eastern peoples with an offshoot in Judaism which gave birth to Christianity.

The belief in one god could always be some sort of progression where the supreme god rules over the others and eventually all other deities are forgotten. I think this would have eventually happened in European Pagan religions.

I think the oldest religions in Europe only had one, two or a few deities anyway - there was the whole Mother-Goddess cult and perhaps latter minor nature gods.

It's strange, in Europe during the Neolithic and after there seems to be more deities for different, specific roles. This happened in the Middle East too, but gradually one supreme deity won out and all others were forgotten about.

Some reading:

Biblical flood based on Babylonian /Mesopotamian flood myth (very likely in my opinion - Mesopotamia!)

Babylonian flood myth