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Thread: Portuguese eye color (Parliament study)

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    Alma portuguesa Damiăo de Góis's Avatar
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    Default Portuguese eye color (Parliament study)

    Since we had elections tonight and the parliament composition will change significantly i went and tried this. It proved difficult to classify certain colors so my mixed category contains everything i couldn't easily classify as light or dark.
    I excluded only 2 or 3 people (black or mixed) and ended up with 220 people which was alright:

    light - 30 - 13.6%
    mixed - 34 - 15.4%
    dark - 156 - 70.9%

    total 220

    Maybe some on the mixed category could be classified as dark (or even light) but i think i didn't miss by much, i would give it a 2% margin of error.
    When the pictures of the new election become avaliable i will try again just to see how much these can change from election to election.

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    It gave me 57% of people with brown/dark eyes from the assembly of Extremadura, although it may be due to a deficient number of samples.

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    Looks about right.

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    Alma portuguesa Damiăo de Góis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defcon2 View Post
    It gave me 57% of people with brown/dark eyes from the assembly of Extremadura, although it may be due to a deficient number of samples.
    Or maybe next elections will give different results for Extremadura. I will see how much it changes for our national parliament after these elections.

    I think parliament samples are too small but i did it anyway out of curiosity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Damiăo de Góis View Post
    Since we had elections tonight and the parliament composition will change significantly i went and tried this. It proved difficult to classify certain colors so my mixed category contains everything i couldn't easily classify as light or dark.
    I excluded only 2 or 3 people (black or mixed) and ended up with 220 people which was alright:

    light - 30 - 13.6%
    mixed - 34 - 15.4%
    dark - 156 - 70.9%

    total 220

    Maybe some on the mixed category could be classified as dark (or even light) but i think i didn't miss by much, i would give it a 2% margin of error.
    When the pictures of the new election become avaliable i will try again just to see how much these can change from election to election.
    I'm glad I have seemed to inspire more work. I'm interested in more precise definitions of what "light, mixed and dark" include. Given the percentages and what we know for Portugal from other studies I would assume:

    "light" - blue and grey
    "mixed" - light mixed and evenly mixed (hazel eyes)
    "dark" - brown and mostly brown eyes (dark mixed)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Supercomputer View Post
    I'm glad I have seemed to inspire more work. I'm interested in more precise definitions of what "light, mixed and dark" include. Given the percentages and what we know for Portugal from other studies I would assume:

    "light" - blue and grey
    "mixed" - light mixed and evenly mixed (hazel eyes)
    "dark" - brown and mostly brown eyes (dark mixed)
    Something like that. Dark is brown eyes including some very light brown eyes one person had. Light is blue and grey and mixed is everything else, i tried to follow a criteria but it's very difficult to judge certain colors. Either way i think it's mostly right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Damiăo de Góis View Post
    Since we had elections tonight and the parliament composition will change significantly i went and tried this. It proved difficult to classify certain colors so my mixed category contains everything i couldn't easily classify as light or dark.
    I excluded only 2 or 3 people (black or mixed) and ended up with 220 people which was alright:

    light - 30 - 13.6%
    mixed - 34 - 15.4%
    dark - 156 - 70.9%

    total 220

    Maybe some on the mixed category could be classified as dark (or even light) but i think i didn't miss by much, i would give it a 2% margin of error.
    When the pictures of the new election become avaliable i will try again just to see how much these can change from election to election.
    I decided to do my own Portuguese parliament study to determine once and for all if ~77% of Portuguese really have pure brown eyes as I had previously insisted based on the survey of 11.601 adults A Pigmentaçăo dos Portugueses by Tamagnini. Since you already opened a thread for a previous set of deputies at the Portuguese parliament, I have decided to post my data here instead of creating a new thread.

    I have based my classifications on the general concept of 1931 K. Saller scale used by Tamagnini as least as I thought. There were three categories which through observation I attempted to characterize:

    S-Pure light: Only blue & lighter-greyish eyes without indication of rayed or zoned pigmented pattern. There can be isolated marginal flecks that are not apparent with typical photos but there can be no pigmented rings of any degree. There can however be a mixture between multiple bluish and greyish shades.

    M-Mixed: Any hint of green (even bluish-green) or where there is indication of a rayed or zoned pigmented pattern. It does not matter if the iris is predominantly light such as with Hugo Martins de Carvalho or Paulo Ramalho. In the rare cases where there were doubts regarding classification such as with Luís Capoulas Santos or Marcos Perestrello, this category served as a default. Dark greyish eyes that can look almost brown/black are melanated, so the default should be accurate. Note that in most cases multiple photos were used for mixed determinations.

    P-Pure dark: Near black to honey-colored or amber encompassing the entire iris as can be ascertained from standard photo distances. Includes mixed brown eyes which are a mixture of lighter and darker brownish/yellowish shades, but excludes eyes that have a greenish or other lighter element.

    For those who have yet to see it, here is the K. Saller scale which Lucas kindly photoshopped to make as clear as possible:


    Results with one obviously non-Caucasoid deputy (Romualda Nunes Fernandes) excluded:

    Pure light in Parliament: 7,86% vs 7,13% by Tamagnini.

    Mixed in Parliament: 27,51% vs 15,13% by Tamagnini.

    Pure dark in Parliament: 64,63% vs 77,74% by Tamagnini.

    Tamagnini's pure light figure and my own match up within 1% which tells me something was done right. Pure blue/grey eyes are not difficult to determine because it is only necessary to identify pigmentation and not characterize the degree of pigmentation. The scale was also rather unambiguous for pure light. My figure for mixed eyes is much higher (and consequently for dark eyes much lower) because my conception of pure brown eyes was more rigorous. Darker hazel eyes were obviously counted as dark by Tamagnini (possibly as P6-P8), while I always counted that as mixed. Thus my earlier characterization of Portuguese eye color based on the A Pigmentaçăo dos Portugueses survey was incorrect.

    Portuguese and the darker end of Southern Europeans in general overlap only with a few atypically light West Eurasian populations outside Europe (e.g. Samaritans or Kafiristan Nuristanis) in the frequency of pure brown eyes. Sardinians an outlier population unlike Portuguese are significantly darker eyed (~76% pure brown Martin-Schultz #9-16 based on the 1983 GG Cosseddu study: https://www.persee.fr/doc/bmsap_0037..._num_10_2_3898) and are actually not far off from Turks and Syrians. Portuguese are perhaps only slightly more pure brown eyed than Andalusians by Dr. Frederick S. Hulse in "The Comparative Physical Anthropology of Andalusians and Cubans" where he found 60% in 420 adult male subjects. Hulse and I appear to share the same rigorous standard of pure brown eyes probably closest to Bunak #1-4 or Martin #1-5. Spaniards overall are undoubtedly in the 50-60% range for pure brown eyes but a more precise figure will not be clear until I after conduct a separate study of the Cortes Generales using the the same standards.

    Full Data for all 230 incumbent deputies:
    Code:
    Adăo Silva: M
    Afonso Oliveira: M
    Agostinho Santa: P
    Alexandra Leităo: M
    Alexandre Poço: M
    Alexandre Quintanilha: S
    Alexandre Simőes: P
    Alfredo Maia: M
    Alma Rivera: M
    Ana Bernardo: P
    Ana Isabel Santos: M
    Anabela Real: S
    Anabela Rodrigues: M
    André Coelho Lima: P
    André Pinotes Batista: P
    André Ventura: P
    Andreia Neto: P
    António Cunha: P 
    António Maló de Abreu: M
    António Monteirinho: P
    António Pedro Faria: M
    António Prôa: P
    António Sales: S
    António Topa Gomes: P
    Artur Soveral Andrade: P
    Augusto Santos Silva: P
    Bárbara Dias: P
    Bernardo Blanco: P
    Berta Nunes: M
    Bruno Aragăo: P
    Bruno Coimbra: P
    Bruno Dias: P
    Bruno Nunes: P
    Carla Castro: P
    Carla Madureira: P
    Carla Sousa: P
    Carlos Brás: P
    Carlos Caçăo: M
    Carlos Eduardo Reis: P
    Carlos Guimarăes Pinto: P
    Carlos Pereira: P
    Catarina Lobo: M 
    Catarina Rocha Ferreira: P
    César Vasconcelos: S
    Clara Marques Mendes: P
    Clarisse Campos: P
    Cláudia André: S
    Cláudia Bento: M
    Cláudia Santos: P
    Cristiana Ferreira: P
    Cristina Mendes da Silva: P
    Cristina Sousa: P
    Dinis Faísca: P
    Dinis Ramos: P
    Diogo Cunha: M
    Diogo Leăo: P
    Diogo Pacheco de Amorim: S
    Dora Brandăo: S
    Duarte Alves: P
    Duarte Pacheco: P
    Edite Estrela: P
    Eduardo Alves: P
    Eduardo Oliveira: P
    Emília Cerqueira: M
    Eurico Brilhante Dias: P
    Eurídice Pereira: P
    Fátima Correia Pinto: P
    Fátima Ramos: M
    Fernanda Velez: M
    Fernando José: M
    Fernando Negrăo: M
    Filipe Melo: P
    Filipe Neto Brandăo: P
    Firmino Marques: M
    Firmino Pereira: P
    Francisco César: P
    Francisco Dinis: P
    Francisco Pereira de Oliveira: S
    Francisco Pimentel: M
    Gabriel Mithá Ribeiro: P
    Gabriela Fonseca: P
    Germana Rocha: M
    Gil Costa: P
    Gilberto Anjos: P
    Guilherme Almeida: P
    Helga Correia: P
    Hugo Carneiro: M
    Hugo Carvalho: S
    Hugo Costa: P
    Hugo Maravilha: P
    Hugo Martins de Carvalho: M
    Hugo Oliveira: P
    Hugo Patrício Oliveira: P
    Inęs Barroso: P
    Inęs de Sousa Real: P
    Irene Costa: P
    Isabel Alves Moreira: P
    Isabel Guerreiro: P
    Isabel Meireles: P
    Isabel Pires: P
    Isaura Morais: P
    Ivan Gonçalves: P
    Jamila Madeira: P
    Joana Barata Lopes: P
    Joana Cordeiro: P
    Joana Lima: M
    Joana Mortágua: P
    Joana Sá Pereira: P
    Joăo Azevedo: P
    Joăo Azevedo Castro: P
    Joăo Barbosa de Melo: M
    Joăo Cotrim Figueiredo: P
    Joăo Dias: P
    Joăo Dias Coelho: P
    Joăo Galamba: P
    Joăo Marques: P
    Joăo Miguel Nicolau: P
    Joăo Montenegro: M
    Joăo Moura: P
    Joăo Paulo Rebelo: P
    Joăo Prata: S
    Joăo Torres: M
    Joaquim Barreto: P
    Joaquim Miranda Sarmento: M
    Jorge Botelho: P
    Jorge Gabriel Martins: P
    Jorge Galveias: M
    Jorge Paulo Oliveira: M
    Jorge Salgueiro Mendes: M
    Jorge Seguro Sanches: P
    José Carlos Alexandrino: M
    José Carlos Barbosa: P
    José Moura Soeiro: P
    José Pedro Ferreira: P
    José Rui Cruz: P
    José Silvano: P
    Lina Lopes: S
    Lúcia Araújo da Silva: P
    Luís Capoulas Santos: M
    Luís Graça: P
    Luís Soares: P
    Manuel dos Santos Afonso: P
    Mara Lagriminha Coelho: S
    Marcos Perestrello: M
    Maria Antónia de Almeida Santos: P
    Maria Begonha: P
    Maria da Luz Rosinha: S
    Maria de Fátima Fonseca: P
    Maria Emília Apolinário: P
    Maria Joăo Castro: M
    Mariana Mortágua: P
    Marta Freitas: P
    Marta Temido: S
    Miguel Cabrita: M
    Miguel dos Santos Rodrigues: P
    Miguel Iglésias: S
    Miguel Matos: M
    Miguel Santos: M
    Mónica Quintela: M
    Nathalie Oliveira: P
    Nelson Brito: P
    Norberto Patinho: M
    Nuno Carvalho: P
    Ofélia Ramos: M
    Olga Silvestre: P
    Palmira Maciel: S
    Patrícia Dantas: P
    Patrícia Faro: M
    Patrícia Gilvaz: P
    Paula Cardoso: P
    Paula Reis: P
    Paula Santos: P
    Paulo Araújo Correia: P
    Paulo Moniz: P
    Paulo Mota Pinto: P
    Paulo Pisco: P
    Paulo Ramalho: M
    Paulo Rios de Oliveira: P
    Pedro Anastácio: P
    Pedro Cegonho: P
    Pedro Coimbra: P
    Pedro Delgado Alves: P
    Pedro do Carmo: P
    Pedro dos Santos Frazăo: P
    Pedro Filipe Soares: P
    Pedro Melo Lopes: P
    Pedro Nuno Santos: P
    Pedro Pessanha: P
    Pedro Pinto: M
    Pedro Roque: M
    Pompeu Martins: P
    Porfírio Silva: M
    Raquel Ferreira: M
    Ricardo Lima: M
    Ricardo Lino: M
    Ricardo Pinheiro: P
    Ricardo Sousa: P
    Rita Borges Madeira: S
    Rita Matias: P
    Rodrigo Saraiva: M
    Romualda Nunes Fernandes: x (excluded due to Negroid phenotype)
    Rosário Gambôa: M
    Rosina Ribeiro Pereira: P
    Rui Afonso: P
    Rui Cristina: P
    Rui Cruz: M
    Rui Lage: M
    Rui Paulo Sousa: M
    Rui Rocha: P
    Rui Tavares: P
    Rui Vilar: M
    Salvador Formiga: M
    Sara Madruga da Costa: P
    Sara Velez: P
    Sérgio Ávila: P
    Sérgio Monte: M  
    Sérgio Sousa Pinto: P
    Sobrinho Teixeira: P
    Sofia Andrade: P
    Sofia Matos: P
    Sónia Ramos: P
    Susana Amador: P
    Susana Barroso: S
    Susana Correia: P
    Tiago Barbosa Ribeiro: P
    Tiago Brandăo Rodrigues: M
    Tiago Estevăo Martins: M
    Tiago Moreira de Sá: P
    Tiago Soares Monteiro: M
    Vera Braz: M
    EDIT: Damiăo de Góis infomed me that Anabela Rodrigues former Minister of Internal Administration was the wrong politician. I made the mistake because the deputy of Viana do Castelo did not come up when I googled "Anabela Rodrigues PSD" instead of "Anabela Rodrigues PS". I always checked if multiple politicians showed. The right individual has clearly mixed rather than pure brown eyes. The proportion of pure brown does not change because I also missed one pure brown case (Nathalie Oliveira) when adding all the classifications up. Finally I mixed up pure light eyed Hugo Carvalho (PS) and mixed eyed Hugo Martins de Carvalho (PSD). I fixed all those points.
    Last edited by Melkiirs; 03-09-2024 at 08:34 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milkaner View Post
    Dark hazel eyes were obviously counted as dark by Tamagnini, while I always counted that as mixed.
    What Saller numbers you counted as dark hazel? For me this shade is most debatable always.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucas View Post
    What Saller numbers you counted as dark hazel? For me this shade is most debatable always.
    With numbers P6-P8 it was unclear to me if an actual lighter rim versus other darks is represented. The other dark numbers also have a greyish rim-if less prominent-but not bluish like with the mixed numbers. I assumed it was intended to be pure brownish. Those numbers likely accounted for the significant divergence with mixed/dark eyes from Tamagnini‘s observers who perceived them as lighter than I did.
    Last edited by Melkiirs; 03-08-2024 at 11:20 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Damiăo de Góis View Post
    Since we had elections tonight and the parliament composition will change significantly i went and tried this. It proved difficult to classify certain colors so my mixed category contains everything i couldn't easily classify as light or dark.
    I excluded only 2 or 3 people (black or mixed) and ended up with 220 people which was alright:

    light - 30 - 13.6%
    mixed - 34 - 15.4%
    dark - 156 - 70.9%

    total 220

    Maybe some on the mixed category could be classified as dark (or even light) but i think i didn't miss by much, i would give it a 2% margin of error.
    When the pictures of the new election become avaliable i will try again just to see how much these can change from election to election.
    I’m not surprised. The vast majority of Portuguese are darker-eyed. The stats whether 70% or 80% dark-eyed isn’t really important. Nevertheless, Portuguese people are just a European folk from Southern Europe. They’re not MENAs!!!

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