Russian forces cross Ukrainian border 22.02.2022 morning

[dviz]

I was making a comment about von der Leyen talking in the video. I was pointing out her hypocrisy, because she accuses Putin and his friends of being corrupt, and being afraid of people who fight for freedom. I’m not saying Putin is perfect, he might be corrupt and not willing to give up his chair. Also if the people want to put some flowers in memory of a dead person, I don't see that as a crime.

In my answer, I already conceded that corruption exists in the West - though corruption in Russia is orders of magnitude larger, both in absolute monetary value, and in the overall participation of the regime in corruption.

Again, that wasn't my point. My point was that the claim: "the rights and freedoms available in the West are the same as those afforded to Russian citizens" is false.

About your question, the situation is currently a bit different, because Russia is under martial law. Under martial law a number of rights are suspended.

That's factually incorrect. There are Russian provinces that are under martial law (those on the border with Ukraine), but Russia overall isn't. This is because, of course, according to the midget-in-chief, Russia is not at war, it only conducts a policing operation in Ukraine. You can still be thrown in jail in Russia if you publicly say the word "war".

We too experienced rights suspension during pandemics. I believe that was abusive, and only few people spoke against it, many conformed. With the people in power of EU, that kind of emergency state can return anytime. In the past, many years ago, it might have been different but nowadays it feels like "democracy" is an empty word. There are certain agendas pushed down the people's throat.
Yes, the average people can still criticize their leaders and make protests, but if we would have martial law like the Russians, or another pandemics that would stop. In any case, criticism does not seem to affect politicians much. Even with clear cases of corruption, what actually happens to them? Best case they get a bit of jail time and that is all. Did Iliescu served any time in jail after Mineriade? The brutal scenes were seen by the whole world. And we had the case in Romania of protests from 10 August when force was used abusively, against protesters.

Your paragraph summarizes the faulty reasoning pushed by Russia: there are freedoms and human rights abuses in the West, and so Russia is no different that the West. The same discourse is used in China as well.

No. Russia and China are totalitarian regimes where the politics, policies and leadership are never under discussion. Period. This is nothing like the West, nothing like Romania, nothing even like Iliescu's regime in 1990s, which was a very flawed kind of democracy, that luckily has improved since.

But the censorship in the EU is on the rising too, many who post on social media have their posts removed. Media is usually one sided. Certain Russian media sites were censored.
Last year a new law came into force. 19 social networks, goods markets and search engines, including Google, YouTube, Amazon, Facebook, Instagram, X (formerly Twitter) or TikTok are under surveillance of European Union. They are obligated to "combat disinformation", "online hate", child pornography or counterfeiting, under the supervision of the European Commission (EC). Again, under “disinformation” anything that goes against official narrative can be put.

And Italian president Sergio Mattarella proposed a law requiring access to the Internet only with an identity document, to limit “hate speech”.

If Russia will be heading into a digital dictatorship, in which no one will be able to have different opinion than the official one or else will be sanctioned, I’m afraid we in the EU, might not so far behind. We’ve seen masks falling off, and had a glance of this, some years ago when various freedoms were infringed: there was censorship, social pressure to get the jab & green pass, people who did not comply lost their jobs, the army was put in the streets, the freedom of travelling was limited, freedom of asembley was limited, etc.

This can return any day. None of these officials, truly care about no citizens freedoms. The only one who must defend them, are the people themselves.

True, that's why "hate speech" laws should be abolished. They're exactly the same as "blasphemy laws" in Islamic regimes, tools to persecute wrong think.

But again, censorship in Russia or China is incomparably more oppressive and failure to follow the guidelines can lead to political imprisonment and death.

Also, Russian, Chinese, Iranian etc media outlets should be banned in the West, until Western media is allowed to operate in those countries. These state sponsored media conglomerates are not honest drivers for the interests of regular Western citizens. We should adhere to strict reciprocity with those shithole countries (to use Trump's legal language) and ban their media until the they unban Western media on their internal markets.

[dviz]

Our Ukrainian allies don't care so much about us, don't worry. You sound more interested in Ukraine than Romania.
For example the Odessa regional authorities have rejected the request of Romanian cultural association "Basarabia" to install monuments in honor of Romanian historical figures on the towns and villages where Romanian minority lives, meaning mostly in Budjak/ Southern Bassarabia (also in 2013 a similar appeal was rejected).
That's after all the help and money we provided to them.

Due to the Soviet anti-Romanian propaganda regarding the Romanian occupation of Odessa there won't be any Romanian monument in Odessa.

Russians are the originators of the narrative that Romanians are fascist gypsies, as if that would have been possible. But propaganda doesn't have to make sense, you just have to spread it. By the way, your Russian friends stick to the notion that Romanians are fascist gypsies to this very day.

However, if Ukraine wins, these sensitive topics, such as the occupation of Odessa, can be discussed and re-evaluated. But if Russia wins, be certain that anti-Romanian feelings will be inflamed to the maximum by the new authorities.

[Cybele]

Due to the Soviet anti-Romanian propaganda regarding the Romanian occupation of Odessa there won't be any Romanian monument in Odessa.

No, this was about whole region of Budjak not only Odessa. And for example, in 2013 the regional administration said that a statue being erected would make the village of Erdec-Burnu, which was close to the battle of Cătlăbuga (where Stephan the Great defeated the Ottomans and protected his land) a place of pilgrimage for Romanians who would want unification of that land with Romania. They were/are so afraid of Romanians, even though we asked for no land back and send them weapons and all that

Russians are the originators of the narrative that Romanians are fascist gypsies, as if that would have been possible. But propaganda doesn't have to make sense, you just have to spread it. By the way, your Russian friends stick to the notion that Romanians are fascist gypsies to this very day.

I'm aware there are Russians who think Romanians are Gypsies. What "Russian friends of mine", do you talk about? Please elaborate.

However, if Ukraine wins, these sensitive topics, such as the occupation of Odessa, can be discussed and re-evaluated. But if Russia wins, be certain that anti-Romanian feelings will be inflamed to the maximum by the new authorities.

By the looks of it, Ukraine is not winning. Probably Russians would not erect these monuments either. But with all the help they received, Ukraine could at least done this gesture.

[Cybele]

Your paragraph summarizes the faulty reasoning pushed by Russia: there are freedoms and human rights abuses in the West, and so Russia is no different that the West. The same discourse is used in China as well.

No. Russia and China are totalitarian regimes where the politics, policies and leadership are never under discussion. Period. This is nothing like the West, nothing like Romania, nothing even like Iliescu's regime in 1990s, which was a very flawed kind of democracy, that luckily has improved since.

The difference is that in the West, they beat more around the bush, currently.
My main idea was that Europe is running the risk of being transformed into a totalitarian regime too. Because there are people on top of it, who slowly, through censorship and especially in times of crises (maybe generated artificially), could push it into that direction, if the citizens agree.

I know that China is at another level (with their social credit system for e.g.). No one brought China into discussion.

Also, Russian, Chinese, Iranian etc media outlets should be banned in the West, until Western media is allowed to operate in those countries. These state sponsored media conglomerates are not honest drivers for the interests of regular Western citizens. We should adhere to strict reciprocity with those shithole countries (to use Trump's legal language) and ban their media until the they unban Western media on their internal markets.

And Western media is a honest driver for the interests of regular citizens?
Let the people hear both sides of the story and make up their own mind.

[Victor]

By the way, your Russian friends stick to the notion that Romanians are fascist gypsies to this very day.

It's approximately same amount of Ukrainians, your "Ukrainian friends" who have similar attitude to your people no matter pro-Russian or Ukrainian patriotic/nationalist ones.

Due to the Soviet anti-Romanian propaganda regarding the Romanian occupation of Odessa there won't be any Romanian monument in Odessa.

So, without Soviet propaganda people would remember Romanian WWII occupation of Odessa and lands between Dnestr and Southern Bug with warm feelings? lolz.

Odessa is not related to Romania. Bugeac is. There are some monuments to different Romanians, Bulgarians and others, like composer Gavriil Musicescu, also Romanian monument to heroes of WWI, probably there are much more of them which I don't know, just like you.

[Victor]

double

[Cybele]

Bugeac is historically more connected to us (than Vinnytsia for e.g.), and also it is, to the Republic of Moldova.

But realistically, the chances of Bugeac to become Romanian or Moldovan territory, are extremely low, to none. So, this discussion is just hypothetical. Both Ukraine and Russia would oppose, to anything like this.
In reality, either Ukraine will hold it, or it might be annexed by Russia (if such territorial advancements are made).

Are you serious? Are you going to fight with a rifle in hand for that land? And for what, there are only a handful of Romanians there.

Btw in Bugeac, Ukrainians are not majority either. But they don't have a problem with that.

According to the 2001 Ukrainian census, Budjak has a population of 617,200 people, distributed among the ethnic groups as follows: Ukrainians 248,000 (40%), Bulgarians 129,000 (21%), Russians 124,500 (20%), Moldovans 78,300 (13%) and Gagauzians 24,700 (4%).

What are you going to do with the rest of the population? Do you plan a Russian style deportation/starvation?

Of course there would not be any case of deportations/ starvations if N. Bukovina would return to Romania. You probably know that our minorities are protected.
I mean, it is funny you mention Romanians will starve the Ukrainians from N Bukovina, when we received their refugees, feed them, gave them shelter, money, facilities. You can see now, in Romania there are many Ukrainians on the streets dying of hunger.

But, I'm quite sure Romania will not take N. Bukovina back. There are different reasons for that.

Just don't present Ukrainians as our allies and such.

[Annihilus]

Russia's Sergey Kotov patrol vessel destroyed near Crimea.







https://twitter.com/vcdgf555/status/1764909852353261718

[Loki]

[SilverKnight]

Bump