Do you agree that the most distinct feature of Europeans is the high prevalence of light hair/eyes?

[Septentrion]

When compared to other racial groups, that is. After all, many MENAs and East Asians and even some South Asians can have light skin, but the difference is they almost uniformly have dark hair and dark eyes. By contrast, even countries like Portugal, Spain, Italy, Albania, Bulgaria and Greece still have many more people (per capita) with light hair and light eyes than anywhere in Asia or Africa does.

Fair hair ratio

Turkey = 4%
Portugal = 11%
Netherlands = 40%
Finland = 58%

[Kess]

Fair hair ratio

Turkey = 4%
Portugal = 11%
Netherlands = 40%
Finland = 58%

Why are you so fond of pulling up numbers out of your ass? I see your uncited numbers about various things all over this section.

[Melkiirs]

Fair hair ratio

Turkey = 4%
Portugal = 11%
Netherlands = 40%
Finland = 58%

It borders on insanity at this point.

Here is Wagenseil’s Fischer scale data for Turks from various regions:

https://www.jstor.org/stable/25749062

Here is Lundman’s map you have already acknowledged which counts Fischer #7-26 + #1-3 as fair.


Only 29 of the 460 (6.3%) of the male Turkish subjects were found to present with the range recognized as fair by Lundman or at least close. Given the over representation of Western Turks who have significant overlap with neighboring Balkanites in pigmentation it is probably not over 4% in Turks overall as you indicate.

The issue arises when you also suggest that Finns are only 58% fair-haired by the same standard. 42% dark chestnut to jet black hair (Fischer #4-6 +#27) has not been reported among ethnic Finns and is closer to some Sámi than typical ethnic Finns. The map itself shows a clear contradiction.

You complain that I mix up studies yet you obviously do the same yourself which is hypocritical.

[Septentrion]

It borders on insanity at this point.

Here is Wagenseil’s Fischer scale data for Turks from various regions:

https://www.jstor.org/stable/25749062

Here is Lundman’s map you have already acknowledged which counts Fischer #7-26 + #2-3 as fair.


Only 29 of the 460 (6.3%) of the male Turkish subjects were found to present with the range recognized as fair by Lundman or at least close. Given the over representation of Western Turks who have significant overlap with neighboring Balkanites in pigmentation it is probably not over 4% in Turks overall as you indicate.

The issue arises when you also suggest that Finns are only 58% fair-haired by the same standard. 42% dark chestnut to jet black hair (Fischer #4-6 +#27) has not been reported among ethnic Finns and is closer to some Sámi than typical ethnic Finns. The map itself shows a clear contradiction.

You complain that I mix up studies yet you obviously do the same yourself which is hypocritical.

Please. You are a so-called Ashkenazi Jewish, but you discriminate against Southern Europeans. Genetically the European population close to Ashkenazi Jews (White Jews) are in Southern Europe. You trust more Central Europeans who put your MENA people into concentration camps and committed crimes against humanity about 80 years ago. The insane one is you!!

[Septentrion]

Why are you so fond of pulling up numbers out of your ass? I see your uncited numbers about various things all over this section.

Will you shut your trap when you got nothing to utter? Since you trying to act smart. Let me put you in your place. Don’t think that everyone has an ass big as yours to pull out things from it. My stats come from studies and surveys, not like the garbage that hails from your mouth. If you act civil then I will too. You’ve crossed the line by being a disrespectful fag!

[Melkiirs]

Please. You are a so-called Ashkenazi Jewish, but you discriminate against Southern Europeans. Genetically the European population close to Ashkenazi Jews (White Jews) are in Southern Europe. You trust more Central Europeans who put your MENA people into concentration camps and committed crimes against humanity about 80 years ago. The insane one is you!!

Let’s just say I trust observers who are less likely to be subject to OWD complex more. Tamagnini and his colleagues likely had a desire to make Portuguese as light as possible. Even though Portuguese are very much European genetically they were behind the rest of Western Europe in the early 20th Century and more on the periphery associated with current/former colonies including Brazil. This is fair cause for complex. Coon fortunately could see right through this and makes no unnecessary reference to unscaled data. Germans can be trusted to be more objective because they have no cause for complex or insecurity. Even academic training can’t fully resolve bias when it comes to these subjects.

I just added your response here to my signature because it is so outrageous and bizarre.

[Septentrion]

Let’s just say I trust observers who are less likely to be subject to OWD complex more. Tamagnini and his colleagues likely had a desire to make Portuguese as light as possible. Even though Portuguese are very much European genetically they were behind the rest of Western Europe in the early 20th Century and more on the periphery associated with current/former colonies including Brazil. This is fair cause for complex. Coon fortunately could see right through this and makes no unnecessary reference to unscaled data. Germans can be trusted to be more objective because they have no cause for complex or insecurity. Even academic training can’t fully resolve bias when it comes to these subjects.

I just added your response here to my signature because it is so outrageous and bizarre.

Not. You are just a Jewish Nazi.

[Melkiirs]

Not. You are just a Jewish Nazi.

Ad hominem. I enjoy discussing with you even when we generally disagree but it seems there is reason we should part ways for while due to the animosity.

[Septentrion]

Let’s just say I trust observers who are less likely to be subject to OWD complex more. Tamagnini and his colleagues likely had a desire to make Portuguese as light as possible. Even though Portuguese are very much European genetically they were behind the rest of Western Europe in the early 20th Century and more on the periphery associated with current/former colonies including Brazil. This is fair cause for complex. Coon fortunately could see right through this and makes no unnecessary reference to unscaled data. Germans can be trusted to be more objective because they have no cause for complex or insecurity. Even academic training can’t fully resolve bias when it comes to these subjects.

I just added your response here to my signature because it is so outrageous and bizarre.

So now you are interpreting Tamagnini’s motives, correct? However the others anthropologists who aren’t from Southern Europe, weren’t ? Correct?
I’m sorry but you are wrong and too bias for any proper assessment. The Portuguese are lighter-haired than the Italians. The Italian average is around 8.2% blond, while slightly higher are the Portuguese at 11%! Your figure of 2% or 3% is more appropriate for MENA nations such Lebanon, Syria, etc… No region of Portugal falls below 5%.

[Lucas]

Here is Karl Saller’s 1931 eye color scale:

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/...fig5_311664810

P 1-8 are essentially pure dark eyes, M 1-22 Varying degrees of mixed, and S 1-10 pure light eyes with a total absence of darker pigment.

All eye shades in the table have a lighter colored rim so don’t mind that. P-8 main color is not a progressively lighter shade of brown unlike the other dark shades. In fact M-1 appears to be more brown. I don’t know how to explain that but the category has no greenish eyes at least.

It was simply too light and also color profile was distorted. I used photoshop to bring it back to original as much as possible. Open in full size to see it clearly.
M18 seems greenish now.