Do you agree that the most distinct feature of Europeans is the high prevalence of light hair/eyes?

[Melkiirs]

On the basis that 75% of Swedes may qualify as blond/blondes or at least fair-haired, so can 11% of the Portuguese!

If we are speaking of what Swedes term råttfärgat (not quite the same as blond) or lighter, absolutely. We come to an agreement on that. I‘m ready to move on from the subject at this point and I‘m sure you are too.

[Septentrion]

If we are speaking of what Swedes term råttfärgat (not quite the same as blond) or lighter, absolutely. We come to an agreement on that. I‘m ready to move on from the subject at this point and I‘m sure you are too.

Rattfargat would be considered a dark blond type in many populations, particularly Southern European ones. Others such as myself might see it as a lighter brown. This is to remind you that blond hair a spectrum just as brown or red hair does. Some blond colours are going to be borderline, others are going to be distinct. There are overlapping of blonds with brown and red hair colours as well. By the way, the most common natural blond hair colour shade in Germanic-speaking countries outside of Scandinavia is a dark blond to light brown type. It’s not the bright blond shades of Scandinavia or Finland or Estonia. Ok, get it right.

[Septentrion]

When compared to other racial groups, that is. After all, many MENAs and East Asians and even some South Asians can have light skin, but the difference is they almost uniformly have dark hair and dark eyes. By contrast, even countries like Portugal, Spain, Italy, Albania, Bulgaria and Greece still have many more people (per capita) with light hair and light eyes than anywhere in Asia or Africa does.

Therefore you’re implying that the most distinctly-looking Europeans are those from Scandinavia and the British Isles. Right? Scandinavia, because of the highest frequencies of blonde hair, blue eyes and fair skin. We associate to the people of Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden. Due to the highest frequencies of red hair, green eyes and a pale, freckled skin. We can associate to the people of Ireland, Scotland and Wales. The rest of Europe is in between these extremes.

[Septentrion]

When compared to other racial groups, that is. After all, many MENAs and East Asians and even some South Asians can have light skin, but the difference is they almost uniformly have dark hair and dark eyes. By contrast, even countries like Portugal, Spain, Italy, Albania, Bulgaria and Greece still have many more people (per capita) with light hair and light eyes than anywhere in Asia or Africa does.

Yes. In northern Spain, as much as 17% have a blond or light hair color, while in southern Spain only 2% maybe blond or fair.

[Septentrion]

If we are speaking of what Swedes term råttfärgat (not quite the same as blond) or lighter, absolutely. We come to an agreement on that. I‘m ready to move on from the subject at this point and I‘m sure you are too.

Narrow-mindedness is not a good thing. You cannot judge blondness based solely on a Northern European perspective. This would be unfair for Southern Europeans.

[Damião de Góis]

This approximately means only half of Norwegian young adult males are noticeably blonder than Rui Caetano without photobleaching.

I thought you had established that Rui Caetano was a brunette who had been out in the sun for too long and got his melanin degraded in the process. You used him to prove your point that southern european "blondes" were actually brunettes.

So why was he still being mentioned?

[Melkiirs]

I thought you had established that Rui Caetano was a brunette who had been out in the sun for too long and got his melanin degraded in the process. You used him to prove your point that southern european "blondes" were actually brunettes.

So why was he still being mentioned?

He is mentioned because I was using him as a sort of benchmark for someone “near-blond”. Rui is a light brownish shade that can turn blondish in the sun. There are countless other similar examples but since he was already discussed I stuck with him. Mats Haakenstad looks at least blondish in all photos and thus is an example of a “true” blond. Only about half of Norwegians males in their early 20s are approximately like that or lighter (Fischer #9-26). That degree of blondism doesn’t go over about two thirds (Aust-Agder by Bryn) for adults anywhere.

I was just agreeing with Septentrion that in the expanded standards (explicitly beyond just the local common conception of blond) from Retzius & Fürst where 75% of Swedish recruit were found fair-haired it would absolutely make sense for 11% of Portuguese to also be fair-haired. That’s how the discussion with Septentrion concluded.

[Lucas]

Interesting self-reported figures for eye color here

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...type=printable

ye color distribution
To compare possible eye color preferences between the populations involved in our study, we
first had to establish the relative representation of eye colors in each target population. Since
literature on eye color distribution either does not cover the populations we used in our study
[102] or is outdated (see the maps based on old and ambiguous data in [103], or [61]), we
asked the participants to self-report their own eye color. The data were compiled from a
broader set of questionnaires that was based on a larger number of participants than those
who participated in the current research. To approximate the eye color distribution in each
population, participants were asked to select the category which best corresponds to their own
eye color: black-brown, green, grey-blue, or other (see the structure of data in Table 1). Esti-
mated variation is in line with both existing older sources [61, 104] and the European Eye
Study [105], which indicates a gradual increase in the frequency of blue-eyed individuals and
decrease in those with brown eyes from southern to northern Europe [10

Look at Estonia and Sweden

[Melkiirs]

Interesting self-reported figures for eye color here

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...type=printable

ye color distribution
To compare possible eye color preferences between the populations involved in our study, we
first had to establish the relative representation of eye colors in each target population. Since
literature on eye color distribution either does not cover the populations we used in our study
[102] or is outdated (see the maps based on old and ambiguous data in [103], or [61]), we
asked the participants to self-report their own eye color. The data were compiled from a
broader set of questionnaires that was based on a larger number of participants than those
who participated in the current research. To approximate the eye color distribution in each
population, participants were asked to select the category which best corresponds to their own
eye color: black-brown, green, grey-blue, or other (see the structure of data in Table 1). Esti-
mated variation is in line with both existing older sources [61, 104] and the European Eye
Study [105], which indicates a gradual increase in the frequency of blue-eyed individuals and
decrease in those with brown eyes from southern to northern Europe [10

Look at Estonia and Sweden

A possible explanation for the Sweden and Estonia coming out much darker eyed than what earlier studies found is that in very fair pigmented countries common standards are more rigorous. Hazel eyes might be considered clearly dark vs green and grey-blue might be reserved for eyes lacking any visible pigmentation. Thus eyes generally considered grey-blue might be frequently counted in other categories. Even with eye color there is a subjective component which standard scales can help to minimize.