Latino ≠ Latin American

[Mortimer]

I don't think mestizo immigrants are to blame per se, surely the U.S. government who continues to group us in weird ways. I think it's really just an organic failure that both Mestizos (not necessarily just immigrants) and the rest of United Statesmen have come to exacerbate.

What is the solution? if you tell Dominicans they are Black they would be offended, if you tell mexicans they are native american they would be offended? No? If you tell them they should just be bi-racial and nothing else they would be offended. I saw really heavily SSA looking guys from Latin America saying they are "spanish" not "black" they seemed offended when someone says they are "black".

[OrthodoxHipster]

I dont think the language is the core. Because languages are lost on ancient history to many ethnic groups but they still hold many of their traditional identies through the customs and beliefs and style of clothing ect.

Although the language does bridge you into the perspective and the culture.

I believe being hispano or latino is about decent, not just simply culture. Because it caries with it a history. Not just a way of doing things.

Being Hispanic or Latino is about descent too, I agree, but good luck being accepted as an Anglophone Hispanic when so many Hispanics do speak Spanish. At that point, I don't think descent is going to make them see you as any less Anglo. This goes for virtually every ethnicity.

[HannibaltheGreat]

A) How much of "latin" ancestry do you think one has to have? And does it have to be expressed in the look and behaviour/style? I mean like looking fully like one or it is enough to be a mestizo or even indo-mestizo or triracial? (Even mexicans are around 7% SSA, SSA is quiete common in latin america, many are 20% SSA for example mexicans consider themselfes zero SSA but they are 7% about i dont think that is very small either, it is real to me)
B) As german do you consider yourself a hispanic? Didnt you had in your profile that you are a quadroon or mullato or triracial before or are you just simply german or half german? And do you think you are latino? Just curious...

Its not necessarily just genetic Ancestry per say. Although genetic Ancestry does highly ensure a connection.

But its about who the people actually are in history that are you Ancestors.

The beginning of many ethnic groups come to have mixed with various other peoples in their contemporary time. So they may share ancestry that is similar to others. But they take a different history path which those people are marked over several generations afterwords.

Its so with many ancient early greeks that weren't really native european greeks.
We know this for example Daunus was not ancient greek but egyptian. So was theseus. And they were other non proper greeks. But they still were involved in many ancient greek history and modern greeks would have them as their ancestors and are decent of that as well. But modern egyptians would not have them as their ancestors.

Also I am not german

I just put that there for lulz earlier. Im not even cuban. But i might have had some ancestors from cuba. Not sure though. If not shared a common ancestor with people from cuba

[OrthodoxHipster]

What is the solution? if you tell Dominicans they are Black they would be offended, if you tell mexicans they are native american they would be offended? No? If you tell them they should just be bi-racial and nothing else they would be offended. I saw really heavily SSA looking guys from Latin America saying they are "spanish" not "black" they seemed offended when someone says they are "black".

It's respectful to call people what they want to be called (as long as it's not offensive). Nevertheless, we're seeing more and more dissolution of reality be it deviating from one's biological sex (different from gender) or pretending they're racially / ethnically something they're not. The only solution is to talk about it with people in online forums.

[Mortimer]

Its not necessarily just genetic Ancestry per say. Although genetic Ancestry does highly ensure a connection.
But its about who the people actually are in history that are you Ancestors.

The beginning of many ethnic groups come to have mixed with various other peoples in their contemporary time. So they may share ancestry that is similar to others. But they take a different history path which those people are marked over several generations afterwords.

Its so with many ancient early greeks that weren't really native european greeks.
We know this for example Daunus was not ancient greek but egyptian. So was theseus. And they were other non proper greeks. But they still were involved in many ancient greek history and modern greeks would have them as their ancestors and are decent of that as well. But modern egyptians would not have them as their ancestors.

How do you know the african countries dont have "that history of ancestry" i mean seems more like legacy then actuall ancestry what you say, or historical legacy... if they were colonies they do have the legacy just like latin america has that legacy of spanish empire. If there is a union africa de latina, i guess it is real. I dont get it, some latin americans are heavily SSA as well you consider them latinos.

[HannibaltheGreat]

FYI they all share iberian and medditernean/roman ancestry so they would be hispanic latino.
But old wolrd modern spaniards are not latin Americans or new world hispanos.



Its like pointing out that anglo americans are english are but english are not americans

Same can be said with austrailians more specifically.

[Mingle]

I've generally considered language to be one of the core, if not the most fundamental dimension of ethnicity. That being said, I like your rationale. You make a good point illustrating that Africans are not Latin descendants, something I would think's important.

I think language is the single largest defining factor in determining cultural similarity (followed by religion in second), but language ≠ language family. Language is a defining factor cause mutual intelligibility brings you into their inner perspective and leads to lots of intimate cross cultural exchange. But if you speak a related language from the same family that isn't really mutually intelligible, that doesn't happen then.

[Mortimer]

FYI they all share iberian and medditernean/roman ancestry so they would be hispanic latino.
But old wolrd modern spaniards are not latin Americans or new world hispanos.



Its like pointing out that anglo americans are english are but english are not americans

Same can be said with austrailians more specifically.

Some philipinos group themselfes with latinos, i think once they were part of the spanish empire, and because they are roman-catholic but they lack i think the language and hispanic names, they also do not have much ancestry, well some philipinos but only a few are mestizos though

[HannibaltheGreat]

How do you know the african countries dont have "that history of ancestry" i mean seems more like legacy then actuall ancestry what you say, or historical legacy... if they were colonies they do have the legacy just like latin america has that legacy of spanish empire. If there is a union africa de latina, i guess it is real. I dont get it, some latin americans are heavily SSA as well you consider them latinos.

Im general they dont. They dont have european haplogroups or more specifically share any medditernean or italian or iberian haplogroups in general.
Theres maybe few exceptions but in terms of population in general, no. I havnt heard much about hispano legacies of Africans from africa.
The ones that did have ended up in new world or spain.

It might be interesting how Africa shaped and influenced hispanosphere in tbe old world. But not sure if I ever heard of such a thing

[OrthodoxHipster]

I think language is the single largest defining factor in determining cultural similarity (followed by religion in second), but language ≠ language family. Language is a defining factor cause mutual intelligibility brings you into their inner perspective and leads to lots of intimate cross cultural exchange. But if you speak a related language from the same family that isn't really mutually intelligible, that doesn't happen then.

Touché. It just goes to show then that Latino is either a meta- or pseudo-ethnicity.