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Thread: The Hanseatic League in the Eastern Baltic

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hors View Post
    Why are YOU still around then?

    Why every creep who decries this or that genocide represent an ethnicity which only augmented in size under the Russian rule?




    The stats doesn't strike me as evidence of genocide.



    YAWN
    Putting tens of thousands of Estonians on animal wagons and sending them to Siberia, many died on the way and even more died in Siberia. Isn't that genocide? And of course, the executions of people who did show anything similar to nationalism. Many of my relatives were shot, because my grandmother's uncle was a soldier/war hero in the Estonian Waffen SS. He even got an Iron Cross for extreme bravery.

    Slowly exterminating the Estonian people and replacing them with other people who don't belong there. That's just too bad. They could have at least sent people here, who look like us. Not some dark shady looking Russians.

    Looks like every forum has at least ONE nostalgic commie/imperialistic Russian.

    Imperialism is the opposite of nationalism. I hope that everyone realize that.

  2. #12
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    Putting tens of thousands of Estonians on animal wagons and sending them to Siberia, many died on the way and even more died in Siberia. Isn't that genocide?
    No. Look up the definition in a dictionary.

    And of course, the executions of people who did show anything similar to nationalism.
    Why "of course"?

    Many of my relatives were shot, because my grandmother's uncle was a soldier/war hero in the Estonian Waffen SS. He even got an Iron Cross for extreme bravery.
    The SS bastard got an Iron Cross and his relatives were left alive. Pox on Stalin and his henchmen. They were evidently anti-Russian creeps.
    Last edited by Hors; 04-16-2009 at 07:08 PM.

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    No. Look up the difinition in a dictionary.
    If 30% of Estonians were totally wiped out then I call that genocide.

    If events where 5% or 10% of some ethnicity is killed. Then I think that I can safely call the crimes that Russians did on my people, genocide.


    The SS bastard got an Iron Cross and his relatives were left alive. Pox on Stalin and his henchmen. They were evidently anti-Russian creeps.
    He was fighting for the freedom of Estonia. Already in 1940 people were killed and sent to Siberia. He killed no Jews, he only killed Russians. The Russian troops weren't very skilled so he killed a lot of them. Estonian people already knew that if USSR conquers them again. Then they might be wiped out totally. And they were correct. After USSR conquered Estonia again. Then the killings and sending people to Siberia continued. If USSR wouldn't have fallen apart in 1991, then the Estonian people would have gone extinct quite soon.

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    If 30% of Estonians were totally wiped out then I call that genocide.
    *IF*

    Are we discussing fiction or alternatve history here?

    He was fighting for the freedom of Estonia. Already in 1940 people were killed and sent to Siberia. He killed no Jews, he only killed Russians. The Russian troops weren't very skilled so he killed a lot of them.
    I hear this kind of story oh so often. In fact, Estonian SS were used mostly against civilians, drowning in blood Belarussian villages, and when finally they were sent to encounter the Red Army they were beaten into jelly in no time.


    Estonian people already knew that if USSR conquers them again. Then they might be wiped out totally. And they were correct. After USSR conquered Estonia again. Then the killings and sending people to Siberia continued.
    Damn, how come YOU are alive?!

    If USSR wouldn't have fallen apart in 1991, then the Estonian people would have gone extinct quite soon.
    LOL

    But don't worry. Estonians are not viable. You'll extinct anyway, and soon.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Sigurd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hors View Post
    If protection of basic rights of the Russian ethnic minority in the Baltic States is Imperialism... OK, I'm an Imperialist.
    That minority was virtually non-existant before Soviet rule, or at least relatively minor.

    So sure there were Italians in South Tyrol before WWI, but that was about 3%, as opposed to 92% indigenous Germans and 5% indigenous Ladiners.

    Then Mussolini moved his 70,000 north from Apulia and placed them into Bozen, put up the "Victory Monument" which still stands and reads "Here we taught [those Barbarians] culture, language and literature", many other Italo-Fascist monuments still stand and the police are very biased towards the German group.

    And if I witnessed that an Italian came along and told my already oppressed ethnic brothers (they are too, Tyrolese-Bavarian Germans) that this oppression was just to "protect basic rights of the Italian population there", he'd meet a bunch of clenched knuckles fairly soon, and I'm not a violent person.

    Perhaps this is why I believe I understand the Baltic Question in regards to Russians and how they have run down formerly well-functioning countries all too well, and have extended sympathy for their fate.

    What? Don't like the truth much?
    Truth is not worth much if used selectively and all the big, bad parts are left out. Sure, it's not a lie, so perhaps it's acceptable in everyday inter-personal use --- but to build a whole worldview on partial-truths and half-truths is a bit sad, TBH.

    But that was not my main point. My point was rather - what is your obsession with Latvians and why the need to slag them off all the time. A little bitter because your measly vodka-hut could never rival their pride?

    It's good you don't follow this wisdom personally. We'd be missing you here otherwise...
    I struck a deal with Loki to keep out of intra-forum squabbles in the open forum almost two months ago and have kept to it since. I would assume that if you checked my postcount of the past 1 1/2 or 2 months, you would find that from then on it was at large, productive and constructive.

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    That minority was virtually non-existant before Soviet rule, or at least relatively minor.
    You don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about.

    Back in 1935 Latvians made up 75% of the population. And that's after ethnic cleansings and deportations of Russians.

    Truth is not worth much if used selectively and all the big, bad parts are left out. Sure, it's not a lie, so perhaps it's acceptable in everyday inter-personal use --- but to build a whole worldview on partial-truths and half-truths is a bit sad, TBH.
    Elaborate, please.

    But that was not my main point. My point was rather - what is your obsession with Latvians and why the need to slag them off all the time. A little bitter because your measly vodka-hut could never rival their pride?
    I'm not sure what you're talking about... Their pride of the ruined industry and infrastructure, enourmous debt, Latvians cleaning toilettes in Ireland, prostitution being the only flourishing business?

  7. #17
    Senior Member Sigurd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hors View Post
    Back in 1935 Latvians made up 75% of the population. And that's after ethnic cleansings and deportations of Russians.
    And after ethnic cleansing by Russians during Soviet times and systematic colonisation by Russians, they're less than 60%. From what I gather, of the near-enough 40% of Russians in the country, most refuse to learn the language, and a good number of Russians are involved in "crooked business".

    Even before that, Russification under the Russian Empire was compulsory. Similar measures will thus have been applied already in Tsarist times.

    Elaborate, please.
    I'm currently too lazy to conjure up the details, but you should know yourself best that much of Latvian effort on the same front/side as the Russians started no earlier than 1916 and ended no later than 1920.

    After that, Latvian-Russian relations were anything but good as Latvians soon learnt the real intention of Russians. Sure, there were some notable Latvian communist leaders, but very few of them had anything to do with even the Red Riflemen whatsoever.

    As regards initial sympathy to communist credentials as early as the attempted 1905 revolution - this would perhaps have been a desparate attempt to oppose the compulsory Russification under the Russian Tsarist Empire.

    And for the treatment of Latvians by Russians during the Second World War, when they re-occupied the country, I heavily recommend a standard work: Kovalevskis, Noritis & Goppers (Eds.), Latvia: Year of Horror, which especially focusses on the 1940-41 period.

    I'm not sure what you're talking about... Their pride of the ruined industry and infrastructure, enourmous debt,
    The industry and infrastructure was ruined by your Russian countrymen and the enormous debt was built up by the very same.

    Latvians cleaning toilettes in Ireland,
    Personally, I have not come across any ethnic Latvians cleaning toilets, but the minority who may well do at least do more honest work than the Russian scroungers in my hometown who fight with Turks and Moroccans for predominance in the drug-dealing and women-trafficking businesses, respectively.

    Instead, most Latvians (and Lithuanians) I have come across over here, tend to be normal workers with whom it is not to difficult to connect. They also tend to exhibit a more healthy work ethic than I encounter amongst Poles or Russians, which must be held to their honour.

    prostitution being the only flourishing business?
    Women-trafficking in the Baltic and therefrom is a Russian-dominated business, both as far as the agents are concerned as well as the girls. I am under the solid impression that all those Latvian or Lithuanian girls whose name is something like Olga Ruskova are really Russian girls, my linguistics are good enough to determine that.

    A brief inspection of the "flourishing prostitution business" would soon reveal that it is a puppet show run by corrupt Russian mafiosi.
    Last edited by Sigurd; 04-16-2009 at 09:53 PM. Reason: Fixed broken tag

  8. #18
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    And after ethnic cleansing by Russians during Soviet times and systematic colonisation by Russians, they're less than 60%.
    the point is that Latvia always had significant Russian presence, since times immemorials

    From what I gather, of the near-enough 40% of Russians in the country, most refuse to learn the language,
    Most are old and simply incapable of learning any language

    it's inhuman to demand from them to learna foreign language in order to get citizenship of the country they were born in and/or lived most of their life

    and a good number of Russians are involved in "crooked business".
    LOL

    Latvia is a fascist ethnic state controlled by Latvians. The civil service is staffed almost exclusively by Latvians. Smuggling, money laundering etc. can not be done without them having a share.

    Even before that, Russification under the Russian Empire was compulsory. Similar measures will thus have been applied already in Tsarist times.
    What Russification?

    I'm currently too lazy to conjure up the details, but you should know yourself best that much of Latvian effort on the same front/side as the Russians started no earlier than 1916 and ended no later than 1920.
    You're still talking in riddles.

    The industry and infrastructure was ruined by your Russian countrymen and the enormous debt was built up by the very same.
    It was built by the Russians and sold/ruined by Latvians who after squandering of what was left afterthe USSR started to live on borrowed money.

    Personally, I have not come across...
    Your personal anecdotal experience is of little interest, as I'm sure you realize yourself

    Women-trafficking in the Baltic and therefrom is a Russian-dominated business
    Latvian police is staffed by ethnic Latvians, that's who is in control.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Sigurd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hors View Post
    Most are old and simply incapable of learning any language

    it's inhuman to demand from them to learna foreign language in order to get citizenship of the country they were born in and/or lived most of their life
    Ladiners in South Tyrol have never had trouble to learn German. And even the Burgenland Croats (minus that vile Greens-MP Terezija Stoisits) tend to not have a problem learning German and generally seek to contribute to culture. (The Carinthian Slovenes are more reluctant)

    The fact that either of these groups always learnt German also meant that they were and are disproportionately represented: Luis Trenker (director), Hansjörg "Giorgio" Moroder (Oscar-winning composer), Katharina Lanz (freedom fighter against Napoleon) and several notable skiiers for the Ladiners; Lukas Resetarits (actor), Willi "Ostbahn-Kurti" Resetarits (musician), Fred Sinowatz (chancellor), Barbara Karlich (talkshow host), Thomas Parits, Andreas Ivanschitz (both notable footballers), Norbert Darabos (leading politician) for the Burgenland Croats.

    Similar such notable contributions, household names of Russians in Latvian households seem to be somewhat scarce. Perhaps this is also because they have traditionally chosen to identify with the "Motherland" rather than see themselves as a distinct enclave within another country?

    But either way, they're trying to steer a country clearly not theirs into a direction which favours their old Soviet mindset.

    Latvia is a fascist ethnic state controlled by Latvians.
    How soon the F-Word is uttered again. Getting back into Soviet patterns of behaviour?

    The civil service is staffed almost exclusively by Latvians. Smuggling, money laundering etc. can not be done without them having a share.
    If there's no Russian as the direct middle-man, then it's the next one higher up. Don't deny it.

    Ya know, most of our civil service is staffed almost exclusively by Germans. That doesn't mean that others don't have their dirty fingers in play in steering the puppets.

    In Latvia and the Baltic in general puppet-steering and running-down the economy is the general business of Russians.

    I got a taste of Russian attitudes to "gentleman's agreements" last November when I was flat-hunting. And that's in the UK, mind you. I was told once that "Hand-shake quality does not imply that the hand-shake is quality when a Russian is involved", and that is all too true.

    What Russification?
    Read your own history.

    Your personal anecdotal experience is of little interest, as I'm sure you realize yourself
    No, instead I believe that my judgment as an outside is less biased because my experience with either ethnicity is what could be termed as "anecdotal". Meaning I have no formal ties to either country and can assess from experience rather than identification.

    My experience with Latvians, and Baltics in general, has been at large positive, whilst my experience with Russians could not have meen any more negative.

    I can only base my objective judgment on what I have seen, granted - but if I go by "my anecdotal experience", then the Russians aren't coming out of this particularly well.

    Latvian police is staffed by ethnic Latvians, that's who is in control.
    And He who thinks that the common policeman on patrol has anything to decide whatsoever, clearly hasn't understood the way the world works yet.

  10. #20
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    If there's no Russian as the direct middle-man, then it's the next one higher up. Don't deny it.
    Yeah, Latvia is run by Russians

    LOL You're funny.

    In Latvia and the Baltic in general puppet-steering and running-down the economy is the general business of Russians.
    Who is interested in your unsubstantiated absurd personal opinions? Not me.

    Read your own history.
    I don't read alternative history books you enjoy reading

    Sigurd, your posts are remarkably devoid of substance. I hardly find pieces worth to make a one or two word comment.

    Do you have anything to say on the subject, that's shitty treatment of Latvians by their German masters?

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