Who is the all-time most known (ethnic) Pole?

[Voskos]

Or Tomenable or Piotraschke. Between these three can be a hard competition.

Or Litvin.

[Rumata]

Peterski.

A Jew from Ukraine

[Rumata]

But it's really hard to imagine which Pole is the best known in far away countries now and to know which one it was in the past is even harder.

[rothaer]

So what is your opinion of it? Because if he's an ethnic Pole he's indisputably number 1.

In modern German he's usually called Nikolaus Kopernikus, his original name was Niklas Koppernigk, Latinised Nicolaus Cop[p]ernicus, post mortem Polonised Mikołaj Kopernik. He hailed from German speaking burghers of Thorn (in Polish: Torún). His mother was Barbara née Watzenrode and his father was Niklas Koppernigk (senior). His father was juror in Thorn and he is mentioned multiple times in the juror books of Thorn. The most often spelling of his name there is "Koppernigk". The astronomer's maternal grandfather Lukas Watzenrode (senior) was also juror in Thorn and later chief juror.

Here's a family tree:



Niklas Koppernigk's (junior, i. e. the astronomer) correpondences are in Latin and German. Professionally he was a high ranked administrational employee in Royal Prussia in various functions over time.

All this information is from the German Wikipedia article with sources mentioned: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolaus_Kopernikus

What is Royal Prussia? Royal Prussia was a state of it's own with a partly German and partly Polish (and Kashubian) population that had German as its administrational language and was ruled by Germans from its German part of the population. Royal Prussia emerged out of an internal Prussian conflict between the (German) Teutonic Order and the (German) city burgers throughout Prussia (Prussian Confederation). The Prussian Confederation held control of Western Prussia and for strenghening itself against the Teutonic Order it asked the Polish king for becoming the head of the state and this way Royal Prussia emerged and became in personal union with Poland in 1454. It was a state of its own with German as constitutional administrational language, own parliament, courts and with the right of an own army. This status ended when in 1569 the Polish king in the Union of Lublin with Lithuania ignored Royal Prussia's rights and incorporated it into the Polish state. Now, Niklas Koppernigk (junior) and his wider family held a number of important administrational positions in this Royal Prussia that Thorn was part of.

Afaik the here told facts regarding Copernicus and his family are undisputed.

To answer your question my take is that he is an ethnic German and I don't know how you could be more ethnic German. If people state that he's a Pole they will likely not mean that he was an ethnic Pole but that he was a citizen of a state that was legitimately ruled by the Polish king, hence a Pole. Also, retropectively many people label Royal Prussia as Poland because it later became Poland. Or they just have the "information" that Copernicus was born in Poland, lived in Poland and had the name Mikołaj Kopernik. Then they indeed may think that he was an ethnic Pole. There will also be a lot of today's commoners that think that "Charlemagne" was an ethnic French.

[Creoda]

In modern German he's usually called Nikolaus Kopernikus, his original name was Niklas Koppernigk, latinised Nicolaus Cop[p]ernicus, post mortem polonised Mikołaj Kopernik. He hailed from the German speaking burgers of Thorn (in Polish: Torún). His mother was Barabara née Watzenrode and his father was Niklas Koppernigk (senior). His father was juror in Thorn and he is mentioned multiple times in the juror books of Thorn. The most often spelling of his name there is "Koppernigk". The astronomer's maternal grandfather Lukas Watzenrode (senior) was also juror in Thorn and later chief juror.

Here's a family tree:



Niklas Koppernigk's (junior, i. e. the astronomer) correpondences are in Latin and German. Professionally he was a high rank administrational employee in Royal Prussia in various functions over time.

All this information is from the German Wikipedia article with sources mentioned: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolaus_Kopernikus

What is Royal Prussia? Royal Prussia was a state of it's own with a partly German and partly Polish (and Kashubian) population that had German as its administrational language and was ruled by Germans from its German part of the population. Royal Prussia emerged out of an inner-Prussian conflict between the (German) Teutonic Order and the (German) city burgers throughout Prussia (Prussian Confederation). The Prussian Confederation held control of Western Prussia and for strenghening itself against the Teutonic Order this Western Prussia asked the Polish king for becoming the head of the state and this way Royal Prussia emerged and became in personal union with Poland in 1454. It was a state of its own with German as constitutional administrational language, German courts and with the right of an own army. This status ended when in 1569 the Polish king in the Union of Lublin with Lithuania ignored Royal Prussia's rights and incorporated it into the Polish state. Now, Niklas Koppernigk (junior) and his wider family held a number of important administrational positions in this Royal Prussia that Thorn was part of.

Afaik the here told facts regarding Copernicus and his family are undisputed.

To answer your question my take is that he is an ethnic German and I don't know how you could be more ethnic German. If people state that he's a Pole they will likely not mean that he was an ethnic Pole but that he was a citizen of a state that was legitimately ruled by the Polish king, hence a Pole. Also, retropectively many people label Royal Prussia as Poland because it later became Poland. Or they just have the "information" that Copernicus was born in Poland, lived in Poland and had the name Mikołaj Kopernik. Then they indeed may think that he was an ethnic Pole. There will also be a lot of today's commoners that think that "Charlemagne" was an ethnic French.

OK, fair enough. I'd never really looked into it, just knew his nationality was disputed.

[Mortimer]

For me personally it is Pope John Paul II, because I do not know many other Poles and online Davidski

[Salty Ears]

In our country i guess are: Feliks Dzierzynski and Karol Wojtyla, then Robert Lewandowski and Konstanty Rokossowski. If Niklas Koppernigk is Polish, so Maria Sklodovskaya - Kyuri is Russian by this logic)))

[rothaer]

OK, fair enough. I'd never really looked into it, just knew his nationality was disputed.

Lol, I'm aware of the discrepancy of your brief expressionas and my aspie-like answers. Admittedly such a form of exhausting answer is my tendency anyhow, but actually I consciously decided for that extent after a simple answer would more trigger an unnecessary opposition. And with all this said I'm done with this topic and can well stand not to "have the last word".

[Rumata]

As for RF, I'd say: Feliks Dzierzynski

[rothaer]

In our country i guess are: Feliks Dzierzynski and Karol Wojtyla, then Robert Lewandowski

I just know Feliks Dzierżyński from the GDR Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler (figuratively) namend Wachregiment „Feliks Dzierzynski“. Funnily the quotation marks are part of the official name. A subtle distancing?

and Konstanty Rokossowski.

Yes. He somewhat corresponds to the German Rennenkampf, a tsarist Eisenhower (figuratively).

If Niklas Koppernigk is Polish, so Maria Sklodovskaya - Kyuri is Russian by this logic)))

This hits the nail on its head, as is said in German.