Do we need EU? Pls vote!

[Voskos]

No. It's incompatible with the concept of self determination.

[Duke]

With open borders you just need to enter any EU state someway, reach some Belgian, French or any other ethnic ghetto and stay there forever.

yea, thats why i said security is the problem, however, if you enter illegal, you cant have normal job, normal life.

Its was easier for each individual country before, because we had lots of borders, lots of smaller countries, lots of different checkpoints, but now its not different from big countries like Russia or US.

[Victor]

yea, thats why i said security is the problem, however, if you enter illegal, you cant have normal job, normal life.

My ex colleague entered Netherlands in like 2010 and stayed there illegal for fun, worked at some guy's garden living there, he came as tourist, didn't seek for staying just a crazy ass who considered it to be some kind of challenge. He got deported when at border control they've found out he stayed for almost 4 months during summer

[Victor]

yea, thats why i said security is the problem, however, if you enter illegal, you cant have normal job, normal life.

Its was easier for each individual country before, because we had lots of borders, lots of smaller countries, lots of different checkpoints, but now its not different from big countries like Russia or US.

Forgot to add, he entered it through visa free ferry from Cro to Italy (Cro was Visa free for Russians during summer back then), then he travelled up to Netherlands through EU by hitchhiking and stayed there as final destination. He broke law by not returning to Cro from Italy in 48 hrs aswell. I went to Bari in Italy from Montenegrin Bar by similar ferry in 2011, but i was a law obeying citizen

[Duke]

My ex colleague entered Netherlands in like 2010 and stayed there illegal for fun, worked at some guy's garden living there, he came as tourist, didn't seek for staying just a crazy ass who considered it to be some kind of challenge. He got deported when at border control they've found out he stayed for almost 4 months during summer

Seems like a cool guy
But that could happen with closed borders, open borders would just let him to enter in lets say Italy, and end up in Netherlands.
Before he would probably need visa for each country in between, depending on passport.

[rothaer]

What's the problem to have an ID and pass through the border? I think having controlled border is one of definitions of sovereignty for any state. (...)

Exactly my opinion. No free movement doesn't mean that movement is not possible but simply that the respective state can keep the control of which foreign individuals will reside in it and which not.

[Jana]

What's the problem to have an ID and pass through the border?

It's not a problem for individual travelers but is for business. No intra EU borders is highly beneficial for economy, and it's much more competitive that way (no waiting on borders for trucks, ships and trains etc)
why is why even non EU members like Switzerland, Norway and Iceland want to be and are inside Schengen zone.

[Victor]

It's not a problem for individual travelers but is for business. No intra EU borders is highly beneficial for economy, and it's much more competitive that way (no waiting on borders for trucks, ships and trains etc)
why is why even non EU members like Switzerland, Norway and Iceland want to be and are inside Schengen zone.

It can be regulated someway, there are always some ways out instead of just not doing any deal. More digitalization may help aswell, with faster checkups for cargo, some special seals for cargo containers and so on, when only truck driver gets some rapid authorization at ramp on the border.

[Victor]

It's not a problem for individual travelers but is for business. No intra EU borders is highly beneficial for economy, and it's much more competitive that way (no waiting on borders for trucks, ships and trains etc)
why is why even non EU members like Switzerland, Norway and Iceland want to be and are inside Schengen zone.

We have an issue with Belorussia now, we have no border and they're visa free for lots of EU states (they love Lithuanians, Poles and other coming for cheap goods and petrol to them), it's not very safe at the moment.

[PlattitüdenPaule]

It can be regulated someway