Walloons don't exist?

[Tchek]

Coon never tried to give the name "Walloon" to any type and, unlike most of his contemporary peers, he stressed that the difference between the Walloons and Flemings is merely one of different tendencies on top of the same foundation. The Walloons tend more towards Alpine, the Flemings more towards Nordic, which does not mean that Walloons are Alpines, nor that Flemings are Nordics.

Coon based his observations on two belgian anthropologists: Emile Houzé and Leon Vanderkindere. Both were ridiculous nationalists typical of the 19th century, respectively Walloon and Flemish. They were trying to prove the "extreme differences" and "inferiority" of the other side, in a time where people were trying to convince themselves they were daddy special boys (romantic nationalism).
Coon picked up on that and wrote "While there are differences, they are not that great" and he was aware of the irrational ethnic chauvinism of those anthropologists and concluded that both Flemish and Walloons were just in the middle of the European average.

and it's fairly common in Sweden to think that darker ethnic Swedes are always part Walloon.

In sweden they are *attributed* to walloon ancestry but that's not often the case. Darker swedes can be influenced by Finns, Germans, Romas and many other ethnicities.

[Tchek]

To us Germans all traditional French speakers are French per definition (not Bretons, Germans and Basques that became French speaking lately). To my understanding Walloons have spoken French "ever since".

It's complicated because Walloons started to be a thing after Carolingian romanization in the 9th century. Walloon culture is basically the breakaway Romanized branch of the Carolingian empire (around Liège and Aachen). The second most ancient "French" text was the St Eulalie text and is basically the latin spoken in that area (the first "French" text being the Strasbourg oath). The walloon language was distinct to French.
But no one knows what was the language prior to romanization, whether it was a celtic, extinct Belgic or Germanic language.

[lei.talk]

Coon never tried to give the name "Walloon" to any type and, unlike most of his contemporary peers, he stressed that the difference between the Walloons and Flemings is merely one of different tendencies on top of the same foundation. The Walloons tend more towards Alpine, the Flemings more towards Nordic, which does not mean that Walloons are Alpines, nor that Flemings are Nordics.

internet_archive.org/Coon+Talks+About+Walloons

wikipedia.org/Find_Your_Favorite_Physical_Anthropologist

[Östsvensk]

In sweden they are *attributed* to walloon ancestry but that's not often the case. Darker swedes can be influenced by Finns, Germans, Romas and many other ethnicities.

Lundborg basically classified the Finns as East Baltic and Walloons as Alpine, though he did not use the terms himself (at least not yet when he wrote). Swedes were obviously "Nordids".

The Finnish races, that in olden times were especially numerous and who
were divided into many different branches, living in a territory stretching from
the most northerly part of Scandinavia through Finland and North Russia a good
way into Siberia, have by degrees lost their own national peculiarities and have
to a large extent become absorbed by other nations, especially by Slavonic races
in Russia. The Tavastlandish is considered to be one of the most pure of the
Finnish races. Such types are not so unusual even among us. A Finn of this
type is short in stature, thick=set and strongly built. He is fair and, as a rule,
has light eyes, his hair is straight and coarse, his complexion is fair and often of
a somewhat dirty grey colour; his head is short and fairly broad, as is also his
face. This has a square appearance caused by the broadness of the cheeks which
extend downwards even to the angle of the lower jaw. The nose is very clumsy
with a concave*brigde. Figs. 4 to 6 show us some Finnish types in Sweden, as
do also the pictures on Plates XI XIII, mixed types on Plate XIV.

Although they all have certain features in common, Karelians Savolaxians,
Esthonians with other, Finnish races of more adulterated blood, deviate from the
type described above in a more or less degree. These races are also represented
in our own country. But this is not the right place to consider these differences.

[...]

Walloons came from Belgium during the seventeenth century to improve the
Swedish iron industry. They settled near the great ironworks in East Gothaland
(Ostergotland), Uppland, Varmland and Bergslagen. They are represented mostly
by a dark type. Even they are for the most part of short stature, thickset growth,
and have broad faces. (See Fig. 11). They have intermarried partly among
themselves and partly with Swedes, and owing to this a great many mixed types
have arisen. (See Plates XIX XX). The descendants of these Walloons who
have now spread themselves over the whole country, probably amount some tens
of thousands.

--The Swedish Nation in Word and Picture, pp.32-33

The famous Swedish poet Dan Andersson was of Walloon (mother), Finnish (father) and Swedish ancestry.

[lei.talk]

I added an image as proof of my point!!!

you have stolen my dreams of logical fact-based discourse

and my second childhood on the apricity

with your empty posts.

[Boudin]

Walloons are not French because they have nothing to do with the French nation, it's not a matter of germanic genetic or whatever.


Yes, but why did you post them?
The first is American, 2nd and 4th are Flemish and the third one is from the German-speaking community

The point was to illustrate the existence of a stabilized Belgian phenotype that can be called Walloons.

[rothaer]

It's complicated because Walloons started to be a thing after Carolingian romanization in the 9th century. Walloon culture is basically the breakaway Romanized branch of the Carolingian empire (around Liège and Aachen).

How is that specific to Walloon, isn't that also applicable to most areas in Northern France?

The second most ancient "French" text was the St Eulalie text and is basically the latin spoken in that area (the first "French" text being the Strasbourg oath). The walloon language was distinct to French.

Surely not all was homogenous.

Btw. I like this map, that contains enormously much information:

But no one knows what was the language prior to romanization, whether it was a celtic, extinct Belgic or Germanic language.

The onomast Jürgen Udolph told me that at the end of the Antiquity in Gallia and Britannia the cities crumbled and the whole Roman speaking city population moved to the countryside. In Gallia this led to that the rural Celtic population was ultimately Romanised while the same thing in Britannia due to the majority conditions led to the opposite, i. e. the whole former Roman city population became Celticised in the countryside. This will have applied to Wallonia as well otherwise the Roman language would have become extinct there as in Britannia. As for the Germanic language it will have existed besides the Gallo-Romans and the lingusitic homogenisation will have led to the Romanisation reflected in today's situation. Under no circumstances it can before have been homogenously Germanic or homogenously Celtic (except for before Ceasar). Otherwise it could not have been Romanised at that time.

[rothaer]

In sweden they are *attributed* to walloon ancestry but that's not often the case. Darker swedes can be influenced by Finns, Germans, Romas and many other ethnicities.

Exactly. Particularly you also simply do have darker Swedes proper. The popular Swedish Walloon narratives are comparable to American Cherokee ancestry family lores, i. e. either not applicable or notably overrated.

[Septentrion]

So what? They are still french. French peoples are mix of celtic and germanic. If walloons are not french because of their germanic genetic, then by this logic there is no french ethnicity.

By your same reasoning. One could also say that there is no German ethnicity, right?

[Blondie]

By your same reasoning. One could also say that there is no German ethnicity, right?

You are german and Belgien is Germany