French regions according to Human Development Index 2021 and which countries and parts of UK compare

[coolfrenchguy]

I don't trust those indexes for several reasons...the Ile de France having the same hdi as southeast England is obviously a joke, France is more developed than the UK in almost every way (financial/speculative economy excepted), the infrastructure is incomparable, most of the UK looks like a gloomy post industrial shithole to be honest.

thanks,sure we are in decline, but we still launching satellites and space rockets in space and even have a space defense program ,we are in competition with Boeing with Airbus,with Toulouse aerospace and Thales for military and defense ,and our fighter plane Rafale is one of the best






VSR 700 french navy VTOL helicopter drone

[Sebastianus Rex]

Well the HDI seems biased in favour of urban over rural areas in general, and France is a somewhat more sparsely-populated country than the UK. Besides, as you yourself have kind of acknowledged, its immigrant underclass is more problematic than ours, while many mostly White rural areas there aren't that affluent either.

Yes, but public services, buildings, roads, highroads, trains (tgv) and overall infrastructure in France is far far better. Also most of the cities and villages are much better kept and they have competitions for urban beautification. Also the country side is more productive and their products of a far better quality...I can’t think of much agricultural products on which Britain excels.

[Tooting Carmen]

Yes, but public services, buildings, roads, highroads, trains (tgv) and overall infrastructure in France is far far better. Also most of the cities and villages are much better kept and they have competitions for urban beautification. Also the country side is more productive and their products of a far better quality...I can’t think of much agricultural products on which Britain excels.

It may have the TGV, but its traditional and local rail routes have been notoriously neglected in recent years. And would you say Paris and Marseille are nowadays better-kept cities than London and Birmingham? (Even disregarding the most heavily non-white neighbourhoods in all four cities). Also, if you want to find 'productive agriculture', try East Anglia or much of Yorkshire.
Anyway, I agree the HDI has its limitations - it looks specifically at GNI per capita, life expectancy and average years spent in education, while largely disregarding transport, infrastructure etc.

N.B. I said the HDI of Ile-de-France was similar to Southeast England, not the same: 0.952 versus 0.942. (Incidentally, Southeast England's HDI is exactly the same as the overall rate for Germany).

[Tooting Carmen]

thanks,sure we are in decline, but we still launching satellites and space rockets in space and even have a space defense program ,we are in competition with Boeing with Airbus,with Toulouse aerospace and Thales for military and defense ,and our fighter plane Rafale is one of the best






VSR 700 french navy VTOL helicopter drone

India also has a space programme, so what?

[Petalpusher]

Looking at this database, France's GNI per capita is still higher than Spain's and even the UK's, but at the same time the other two countries (surprisingly, against all stereotypes) outperform France in terms of education, while Spain also has a better life expectancy than France. https://view.officeapps.live.com/op/...gin=BROWSELINK

In short, it seems that France has a bigger middle-class than Spain and the UK, but also a more problematic underclass (whether urban non-white or rural/small-town White).

I don't think years of schooling means a lot, even not considering the main cause of its further decline (immigration), it's very dependent on how a society accepts craftwork training. It's a double edge sword criteria. Japan has a low one too as they value craft jobs. The rest is debatable shift in pedagogy around the 80's that even the left now recognize was a mistake (education is obviously entirely controlled by the left)

As for the regional breakdown, it reflects more or less wealth, but even there doesn't tell the whole story. Some districts in IDF are very poor, some very rich. Same applies to Rhône-Alpes (i grew up there) or PACA, and not even considering banlieues in the picture. Most of France is basically, small villages made of some farms surrounding a church with small businesses and industries in between that and bigger cities, more so than any other country. Even with all the infrastructures and social policies, the gap is still wide, like 2 worlds living apart at a distance.

[Tooting Carmen]

I don't think years of schooling means a lot, even not considering the main cause of its further decline (immigration), it's very dependent on how a society accepts craftwork training. It's a double edge sword criteria. Japan has a low one too as they value craft jobs. The rest is debatable shift in pedagogy around the 80's that even the left now recognize was a mistake (education is obviously entirely controlled by the left)

As for the regional breakdown, it reflects more or less wealth, but even there doesn't tell the whole story. Some districts in IDF are very poor, some very rich. Same applies to Rhône-Alpes (i grew up there) or PACA, and not even considering banlieues in the picture. Most of France is basically, small villages made of some farms surrounding a church with small businesses and industries in between that and bigger cities, more so than any other country. Even with all the infrastructures and social policies, the gap is still wide, like 2 worlds living apart at a distance.

Still, I am highly surprised that several regions of mainland France are ranked below even Wales and Northern Ireland.

[coolfrenchguy]

India also has a space programme, so what?

but it's India who bought our Rafale fighter jets,and with our help for the indian space program

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CNES

[Petalpusher]

Still, I am highly surprised that several regions of mainland France are ranked below even Wales and Northern Ireland.

Only because of years of schooling. GNI per capita is still higher in France than UK on average, that's more surprising considering the economy has been going downhill in the last decades, all the shithole banlieues, about 20 millions people of immigrant background who are highly unqualified and unemployed, highest social expenditures in Europe, etc... UK doesn't have all these problems at the same scale, yet.

Life expectency is 0.5 year lower than Spain, but still higher than Germany, UK, Netherlands, Danemark, etc... by that token, Monaco has the highest life expectency by a landslide at 86.7y

[Sheppey]

Well I am only describing contemporary realities. In another thread, I was discussing how the Irish Republic's HDI nowadays is somewhat higher than the UK's, when in fact before the 1980's the Republic's economy in both per capita terms and overall size was poorer than Wales.

Ireland is artficially propped up by American tech companies laundering money , through it, and then sometimes an additional step in the Netherlands. Without American support even Scotland would have a higher HDI.

[Your Old Comrade]

My theories as to why France's HDI is lower than the UK's (besides France's DOMTOMS bringing the average a little down):

(1) Immigrants and ethnic minorities seem to be much more uniformly poor than is the case in the UK, where by contrast Chinese and Indians now outperform Whites in terms of education and income.
(2) Many rural and small town areas of France are full of White working-class people - la France peripherique, as sociologists increasingly call them - the opposite of what occurs in most equivalent areas in the UK (except to an extent Wales, Northeast England, Lincolnshire, Cornwall and Cumbria), where many middle-class people live and are often commuters to the nearby cities.

The problem with France, is its extreme overcentralisation in every possible metric. France should really do what Germany did and start political, social, cultural and economic decentralisation, so you get a poly-center country. Much like Germany or Switzerland.

A look at French road and TGV maps shows the issue with France in its most glaring light:





Paris is the black hole, from which little light escapes.

Compare it to Germany and you'd get a very different picture: in Germany, the functions of government are divided between Bonn, Karlsruhe and Berlin. While the Ruhr Area may be the economic heart, it's hardly the only one. Roads and rail don't center on Berlin, although they certainly connect it to the rest of Germany and Europe etc.