Tensions between Dutch and French speakers paralyse the High Council of Justice

[Etelfrido]

I think you are harsh and unfair.

You might be right, I really don't think French speakers are a big problem but it's curious that there are some similarities in countries where French is co-official. One could argue those problems would arise if other languages divided those countries instead of French anyway, but I don't think the Italian region in Switzerland and the German one in Belgium cause too much animosities.

[Dandelion]

What do you say Francophones are less naive and may be dangerous? I always had the impression they are much more sheepish, while the Flemings are more clear-sighted, including because of the way they vote.

I might have chosen my words poorly. I am against stirring up hatred between our peoples, no matter how narrow-minded people can be. The situation is dangerous in that people are kept dumb, because once they become aware they lack rationality. I am not the best communicator and it's because I have the vice of laziness. I don't like it when people are treated like children and I often feel this in Belgium.

Believe me, I cannot stand gratouitous hatred for Francophones as people. It's intellectually lazy. It's what I never understand in the Netherlands, when some Dutch think it's the solution for Belgium. I take no such advice of people who even think Francophone equals Walloon and who cannot even name one political party here. Reality isn't black and white as simple minds think.

I am sorry for what happened to you in Antwerp and I immediately believe you. Some people are rude as fuck. I myself even help French-speakers in French, even though I speak it poorly. Not out of submissiveness, mind you, but because they aren't Frenchifying me for just speaking a language. In Wallonia I sometimes get helped in Dutch too. People need to be less anal about it.

A Walloon who is nice to me can very well be a person who doesn't like Flanders, but who still sees the individual in me. This is how decent people treat each other.

Tchek also told me once. Many Walloons are just as ignorant as Flemings and delving into our national history is too much of a taboo because people think we cannot handle it. Francophones strike me as less of pushovers, is all. Many Francophones are annoyed when they are spoken to in terrible French when they try to speak Dutch out of compensation behaviour. When a Francophone speaks better Dutch than me, I speak Dutch. When a Francophone speaks English to me, I speak English. When one asks me if I speak French? I answer: "Oui un peu. Nous pouvons essayer. Comment puis-je t'aider ?"

I once helped a Francophone woman in French in getting the right train. She understood me and then asked a conductor because she was suspicious I told her the wrong info. I told her the truth. That hurt me a bit, but I understand her too.

[Dandelion]

Simpletons in Belgium often seem to think you have to be a Belgian nationalist not to be a Francophobe and even bigger idiots think you have to treat Francophones like shit to stand up for yourself. Luckily a minority that thinks like the latter, but the first is very common I notice.
I get mistaken for either a radical Flemish nationalist or a Belgian patriot, because the finer things of life seem to be lost on some.

[Dandelion]

I think you are harsh and unfair.

Reason I didn't thumb him up is because of his quote above the video. I just disagree that Francophones suck. French Canadians get treated like shit by Anglophones more than vice versa in fact. Francophone Swiss might be seen as snobs, but Swiss people are proud to be Swiss.

In fact, I even worked under a Francophone lab coordinator once, in Antwerp. She's Flemish (not every Francophone is a Walloon!). She just from a family that spoke French to climb the social ladder. She hides her mother tongue very well and speaks Dutch with an Antwerpian accent. A hidden group of Francophones few people know about, living in Flanders.

[Dandelion]

Also, Belgium isn't as artificial as people think. We are the Southern Netherlands. The Catholic Netherlands. The Belgian Revolution also happened because the Dutch didn't understand our sensitivities. It's not as simple as people assume. Sadly Belgium would become a Francophone state that emulated France too much and surpressed the Dutch language.

Trust me, I like the Netherlands and yes the Dutch did a lot to develop our land economically, but it's no fun being put under a Calvinist yoke when the people aren't used to it, while many Dutch Calvinists think their morality is universal. To this day, many Dutch fail to realise this. I even suffer from this in the Netherlands at times.

I respect Reformed Christians, though. I even once wanted to convert and my best friend for 12 years is Dutch Reformed. Well, actually, she is now studying Catholicism and she is for more forgiving and easy-going than the average Dutch person...

Interestingly, the strictest Reformed Christians often end up being the most tolerant.

[Dandelion]

Yet another message of mine.

One thing about me. I am not against Belgium per se. I am against the idea that ignorance needs to be cultivated or fear used as a motivator in order to save Belgium. Our politics seem to not have reached this level yet, Flemish politics are lacking here especially. Ironically, Flemish nationalists might end up becoming the ones reforming Belgium to a stronger and prouder state in the end. lol

I still am not convinced about Bart De Wever, though. He is eloquent, but very naive about the Netherlands, because he never lived or worked there. He did improve. Just to give an example.

However, our potential next prime minister Conner Rousseau (he's Flemish) sounds like a boorish peasant every time he talks you shouldn't want him negociating with other powers. Please keep him out of that seat. Insulting Italians for supposedly going 'back to the Middle Ages' because they want to make abortion more difficult. No, Italians need their population to grow. The way he speaks Dutch is also beyond terrible. And he's a parvenu fake socialist.

EDIT: Conner didn't insult Italians directly, but he did name their government far right and labeled it as 'back to the Middle Ages' when Tom Van Grieken of Vlaams Belang named Italy as an example among others as a country with a far right party in the government that improved in development.

[Dandelion]

About my experiences with Protestants. They were dumber Protestants. The smarter ones treat me normally. Often atheist people of either Protestant or Catholic background, spoon-fed Dutch nationalism (which in essence is Calvinist-inspired). I think Calvin is a very misunderstood theologian in fact, often portrayed too negatively.

[Incal]

Francophones create trouble wherever they inhabit a country with other people, be it in Belgium, Switzerland or Canada.

I wholeheartedly agree.

[Ruggery]

Yes, it's not a new phenomenon and has been analysed and studied and still is evident, though some might say it's not as pronounced today.

Switzerland does not have the problems of division that Belgium has, although it is just as diverse as Belgium, in Switzerland there is greater national unity than in Belgium.

[Laly]

You might be right, I really don't think French speakers are a big problem but it's curious that there are some similarities in countries where French is co-official. One could argue those problems would arise if other languages divided those countries instead of French anyway, but I don't think the Italian region in Switzerland and the German one in Belgium cause too much animosities.

What Belgium goes through is not reasonably comparable at all with the situation in Switzerland. I know several Swiss and I'm sure the vast majority of the Swiss would tell you there is no communitarian problem in Switzerland, that the unity of the country is not questioned at all (ask for ex. Swiss member Catnip here). It's normal to see different sensitivities, cultural differences, between different ethnic groups, like the French-speaking and the German-speaking Swiss.

Keep in mind that it's always almost impossible to form a government in Belgium, which holds the world record for a country without a government: more than 541 days in 2010-2011 and then it broke its own record, with more than 652 days without a government in 2019-1020.

Belgium also owns a record regarding the number of ministers in Europe. Proportionally, Belgium has twice as many ministers as in Germany, and nothing works.

And concerning Canada, the Anglo-Canadians have acted really monstrously towards the French-Canadians, who are extremely courageous.