Assyrians; Where can they pass physically in Europe? (Multiple choice)

[Nairi]

^ Some of the Assyrians in Armenia and Georgia have a proclivity to resembling the local population, I wonder if any of the Assyrians there intermarried with them. My parents are from Iraq, I'm "Semitic" in appearance, so I doubt I'd pass for Armenia. But then again, maybe I could.

Not some but most Assyrians in Armenia look like us. This is what bewilders me watching pictures here, Assyrians from Iraq look very different from our Assyrians. Yes, intermarriages happen and it is a big concern for Assyrian leaders since they will loose their identity but it is still not widely spread and even full blood Assyrians (who are majority) look like Armenians.

My parents are from Iraq, I'm "Semitic" in appearance, so I doubt I'd pass for Armenia. But then again, maybe I could.

I have seen your picture, you would be taken as a foreigner in Armenia not only by Armenians but also by Assyrians...

The quality of the video is poor but still you can see

[YOUTUBE]yUisQw9lCI4[/YOUTUBE]

[Nairi]

Here is a very nice video about Assyrians. It's in Russian about Assyrian village in Armenia- Arzni. The man shows the very first house inhabitted by Assyrians who survived Genocide and fled to Armenia. In school kids learn subjects in Assyrian, dance their national dances, cuisine is one of the oldest in the world and while there are things which coincides with us I found out right now you put garlic in "Spas", I need to try it (sorry, don't know Assyrian name for Spas lol)

[YOUTUBE]lTiuvvSefSo[/YOUTUBE]

[ZephyrousMandaru]

Not some but most Assyrians in Armenia look like us. This is what bewilders me watching pictures here, Assyrians from Iraq look very different from our Assyrians. Yes, intermarriages happen and it is a big concern for Assyrian leaders since they will loose their identity but it is still not widely spread and even full blood Assyrians (who are majority) look like Armenians.

I think what we also have to factor in, is how many generations Assyrians have lived there. The Assyrians there seem to have adapted to the culture of Armenia quite well, it would not surprise if half, or even most of these Assyrians have Armenian ancestry. Especially the first and second generation ones. But yes, you're right. It's very peculiar.

The Assyrians in the Middle East appear to be phenotypically dissimilar to their counterparts in Armenia. These Assyrians are from Iraq, Syria, Iran and Southeastern Turkey.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofXBf_CIEY4

Here's another video. I think these Assyrians are from Iraq.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzolykX49RI

It's fascinating to know how much they differ from the Assyrians in Armenia and Armenians in general.

I have seen your picture, you would be taken as a foreigner in Armenia not only by Armenians but also by Assyrians...

By Assyrians, I'm assuming this is in reference in Assyrians in Armenia? If so, that would still be strange to me. There are plenty Assyrians who surpass my exotic physical characteristics, which you may or may not find in Armenia.

[Nairi]

I think what we also have to factor in, is how many generations Assyrians have lived there. The Assyrians there seem to have adapted to the culture of Armenia quite well, it would not surprise if half, or even most of these Assyrians have Armenian ancestry. Especially the first and second generation ones. But yes, you're right. It's very peculiar.

The Assyrians in the Middle East appear to be phenotypically dissimilar to their counterparts in Armenia. These Assyrians are from Iraq, Syria, Iran and Southeastern Turkey.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofXBf_CIEY4

Here's another video. I think these Assyrians are from Iraq.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzolykX49RI

It's fascinating to know how much they differ from the Assyrians in Armenia and Armenians in general.





By Assyrians, I'm assuming this is in reference in Assyrians in Armenia? If so, that would still be strange to me. There are plenty Assyrians who surpass my exotic physical characteristics, which you may or may not find in Armenia.

People in your videos look quite different from our Assyrians,especially men. I am sure you can't find group photo of Assyrians from Armenia who would look like group photo pics of Iraqi/Iran Assyrians. I don't think I have ever seen Middle Eastern looking Assyrian in Armenia.
Assyrians came to Armenia with us escaping Genocide (the Assyrian man in previous video was telling) and some mixing was happening in so called Anatolia before as well. Tracing down all stories we know it is Armenian women marrying Assyrian men.
I noticed Armenians living in different countries can also resemble locals without mixing. Features maybe the same with us but overall they might give different nations' vibe.

[ZephyrousMandaru]

People in your videos look quite different from our Assyrians,especially men. I am sure you can't find group photo of Assyrians from Armenia who would look like group photo pics of Iraqi/Iran Assyrians. I don't think I have ever seen Middle Eastern looking Assyrian in Armenia.
Assyrians came to Armenia with us escaping Genocide (the Assyrian man in previous video was telling) and some mixing was happening in so called Anatolia before as well. Tracing down all stories we know it is Armenian women marrying Assyrian men.
I noticed Armenians living in different countries can also resemble locals without mixing. Features maybe the same with us but overall they might give different nations' vibe.

Yeah, those morphological traits are quite prevalent in Assyrians who reside in the Middle East. I watched those videos, the Assyrians depicted in those clips have demeanors which can only be described, at least in my opinion, of an intermediate between an Armenian phenotype and an Assyrian one. Some of the Assyrian men in Armenia, don't look Assyrian at all to me. I've seen light Assyrians, but those men are reminiscent of South Caucasians, as opposed to Assyrians further south.

This also applies to Assyrians in Eastern Turkey, or if you prefer, the former Armenian Highland. Possibly with the exception of Southeastern Turkey. Which is adjacent to Iraq anyway. I've also noticed that Assyrians from Turkey (some of them), plot closer to the Armenian cluster than Assyrians from other countries.

This seems to correspond to geography as well.

McDonald PCA Plot for Turkish Assyrian



McDonald PCA Plot for Iraqi Assyrian (Me)



Note how the Assyrian from Turkey is intersecting with the Armenian cluster. While I am far away from it.

[Nairi]

Yeah, those morphological traits are quite prevalent in Assyrians who reside in the Middle East. I watched those videos, the Assyrians depicted in those clips have demeanors which can only be described, at least in my opinion, of an intermediate between an Armenian phenotype and an Assyrian one. Some of the Assyrian men in Armenia, don't look Assyrian at all to me. I've seen light Assyrians, but those men are reminiscent of South Caucasians, as opposed to Assyrians further south.

This also applies to Assyrians in Eastern Turkey, or if you prefer, the former Armenian Highland. Possibly with the exception of Southeastern Turkey. Which is adjacent to Iraq anyway. I've also noticed that Assyrians from Turkey (some of them), plot closer to the Armenian cluster than Assyrians from other countries.

This seems to correspond to geography as well.

McDonald PCA Plot for Turkish Assyrian



McDonald PCA Plot for Iraqi Assyrian (Me)



Note how the Assyrian from Turkey is intersecting with the Armenian cluster. While I am far away from it.

Yes, I see, thanks.

Armenian and Assyrian Kingdoms historically were rivals but living together under Ottoman rule in Armenian Highland (yes, I do prefer that name by far ). And having the Christian faith did make intermarriages easier and some mixing is happening in Armenia now too. But do you think that entire village of Arzni which keeps its Assyrian heritage is a result of "Armenian Hihgland-Armenia" mixing? There are 7.000 Assyrians in Armenia with Assyrian identity and they don't look like Irai Assyrians. Can't it be that Assyrians are just diverse and can look differently?

[Ar-Man]

The Assyrians in the Middle East appear to be phenotypically dissimilar to their counterparts in Armenia. These Assyrians are from Iraq, Syria, Iran and Southeastern Turkey.

It's very nice to see someone from your Heritage who's thinking healthy, we were tired of the idiotic claims of someone(who has awful identity crisis) that Armenians are proto-Semites

[ZephyrousMandaru]

Yes, I see, thanks.

Armenian and Assyrian Kingdoms historically were rivals but living together under Ottoman rule in Armenian Highland (yes, I do prefer that name by far ). And having the Christian faith did make intermarriages easier and some mixing is happening in Armenia now too. But do you think that entire village of Arzni which keeps its Assyrian heritage is a result of "Armenian Hihgland-Armenia" mixing? There are 7.000 Assyrians in Armenia with Assyrian identity and they don't look like Irai Assyrians. Can't it be that Assyrians are just diverse and can look differently?

While I do think that Assyrians worldwide, are strenuous about preserving their ethno-cultural heritage, and possess a wide array of phenotypic variation that is not associated with foreign admixture. At the same time, I'd also think it'd be naive not to think that marriages between Assyrians and Non-Assyrians don't occur. Especially nations with whom Assyrians share a close cultural, religious and historical bond with. I'm not implying that the Assyrians from Armenia are less Assyrian than Iraqi Assyrians due to their appearance.

I'd be the last person to declare that. We're a very varied people, always have been. I'm just entranced by the beauty of this diversity, that's all.

[Nairi]

While I do think that Assyrians worldwide, are strenuous about preserving their ethno-cultural heritage, and possess a wide array of phenotypic variation that is not associated with foreign admixture. At the same time, I'd also think it'd be naive not to think that marriages between Assyrians and Non-Assyrians don't occur. Especially nations with whom Assyrians share a close cultural, religious and historical bond with. I'm not implying that the Assyrians from Armenians are less Assyrian than Iraqi Assyrians due to their appearance.

I'd be the last person to declare that. We're a very varied people, always have been. I'm just entranced by the beauty of this diversity, that's all.

I understand. Thank you for interesting discussion. I did enjoy it.

[ZephyrousMandaru]

I understand. Thank you for interesting discussion. I did enjoy it.

You're welcome, it was nice conversing with you Nairi. Please don't be offended by the controversial viewpoints of some Assyrians, they don't represent the majority. And are diametrically opposed to mine.