National Israel is NOT God's People

**~~Victor~~** · 12-06-2023, 08:34 AM

Originally Posted by Loki

I disagree that God rejected the Jews because they killed Jesus -- it was in the plan of God that Jesus should die to redeem humanity.

God rejected them exactly for this. It was not God's plan to "kill Jesus" but he knew that evil will of Israelites fueled personally by devil will make them reject Jesus as Messiah and kill Him. There's no pardon for them like "it's God's plan so it's ok" just like Judas is not a God's but devil's tool, but God's providence uses the evil intentions of devil and people for final good, without pardoning the evildoers for this. Commies gave us Russians thousands of martyrs and saints, but those ones who didn't repent burn in hell now for this. Just like Jerusalem fell to the Romans, was devastated and the Temple was demolished, it was a direct God's punishment towards the unrepentant Jews, ex chosen people and apostates, while majority of Christians (same Jews, earlier followers of Jesus and repented ones after His death on Cross) avoided the Roman invasion and left the city between two sieges.

**Loki** · 12-06-2023, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by Victor

God rejected them exactly for this. It was not God's plan to "kill Jesus" but he knew that evil will of Israelites fueled personally by devil will make them reject Jesus as Messiah and kill Him. There's no pardon for them like "it's God's plan so it's ok" just like Judas is not a God's but devil's tool, but God's providence uses the evil intentions of devil and people for final good, without pardoning the evildoers for this. Commies gave us Russians thousands of martyrs and saints, but those ones who didn't repent burn in hell now for this. Just like Jerusalem fell to the Romans, was devastated and the Temple was demolished, it was a direct God's punishment towards the unrepentant Jews, ex chosen people and apostates, while majority of Christians (same Jews, earlier followers of Jesus and repented ones after His death on Cross) avoided the Roman invasion and left the city between two sieges.

I agree partially with this, but want to emphasize that God knew from the creation of the world that Jesus would die to save humanity. Jesus knew that he was going to die -- it was part of his divine mission.

I'm not absolving the Jews from killing Jesus -- again, God knew that they would (collectively) reject him (with some exceptions, as in the apostles and first Christians...a remnant that was saved). But Jews collectively were punished for this act, and it culminated in the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple, and Second Temple Judaism in 70AD.

**Loki** · 12-06-2023, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by Mortimer

I think the bible says that only the ones who follow christ are children of God the others are only creatures of God but not children of God, if it is true why would there be a exception for jews who still believe that Jesus was a bastard but not lets say for muslims or buddhists ?

not all humans are children of God
https://www.gotquestions.org/all-God-children.html

some even christians or nominal christians do not know that, i heard people saying "all humans are children of God" which is not true

That's exactly what I'm saying, in effect. By becoming a Christian, get baptized and live the Christian life, you are obeying God and following Christ.

**~~Victor~~** · 12-06-2023, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by Loki

I agree partially with this, but want to emphasize that God knew from the creation of the world that Jesus would die to save humanity. Jesus knew that he was going to die -- it was part of his divine mission.

I'm not absolving the Jews from killing Jesus -- again, God knew that they would (collectively) reject him (with some exceptions, as in the apostles and first Christians...a remnant that was saved). But Jews collectively were punished for this act, and it culminated in the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple, and Second Temple Judaism in 70AD.

God knows everything. Considering Jews (non Christian Jews for sure, ethnonationalist and Talmudic ones, they still carry this damnation, already as a regular tribe, they will carry it until the end, lots of them will repent and accept Christ as Messiah by sermon of Elijah, in the days of antichrist.