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Thread: Question on UP/Cro-Magnoid phenotypes' distinctiveness

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    Question Question on UP/Cro-Magnoid phenotypes' distinctiveness

    Is there genetic corroboration for them having a predominant ancestry from a population that was distinctive from that which was reponsible for the Aurignacoid taxons, for example a certain admixture component peaking among populations where those phenotypes are the most common?

    Rereading some old threads I've came across some comments by Agrippa, like this one that could be interpreted that the modern UP phenotypes are called so only because they resemble the old Cro-Magnon people:
    Yes it is related to the Cro-Magnon remains in the narrower sense.

    That is important to note, because authors and even anthropologists speak of all early European Palaeolithic humans as of "Cro-Magnon" people so they mix up all kinds of types, which just lived at that time in Europe regardless of whether they being close by their features to "the Old of Cro-Magnon".

    That's why this strange Grimaldi variants can be put in this category, but this has nothing to do with Cromagnid as I use it, because this refers strictly to the Europid type(s) which resemble the remains of Cro-Magnon, that one.
    I'm unsure of what to think on the next one, where he claims Coon's Brünn phenotype could only be considered CM because for Coon that type of Europeans has a different origin but in reality Brünn is an Aurignacoid pheno:

    As for C.S. Coon, he was basically right but made many strange assumptions, because not every "overgrown" Nordid with larger measurements is a "Bruenn" and Bruenn is such a stupid term, since the form it refers to was essentially Aurignacoid/leptodolichomorphic and the whole idea makes just sense because of his idea of all larger headed Europeans being "Upper Palaeolithic" and even Neandertal influenced.


    Same for the excerpts below:

    Dont overestimate that, because there are, at least on the skull, very robust Suedeuropid Mediterranoid variants, Atlantomediterranid, Iranid etc. They were and still are individually often indistinguishable from Nordids by general metric-proportional standards and robustness.

    Actually his problem was to assume that all more robust forms are "Upper Palaeolithic" and probably even not "fully sapiens". If you substract that from his calculation, everything would have looked very different in certain respects.

    If Nordids would be the product of gracile Proto-Mediterranoid and robust Cromagnoid/Proto-Nordoid variants, well, then Nordids are just that, because before that happened, they didnt exist and afterwards they looked like they do now after harmonisation and selection of the respective traits.

    The harmonised main form was clearly leptoprosopic though and essentially Aurignacoid in character, so morphologically much closer to Mediterranids.

    Yet this is no simple North-South issue, because Cromagnoid forms too existed in the North and the South (Berberid, Guanche etc.).

    [...] We dont know for sure where the majority came from, but the modern Nordids for sure had more than one influence from different populations and being the product of local harmonisation, which again might have taken place for the bulk of Proto-Nordoids further South though.
    They show definitely more traits of rather Southern origin than Dalofaelids or the Borealised Osteuropids, which means to assume that they are the derivate of a Suedeuropid form which adapted to the North is not implausible.


    As well as these:
    By morphological traits, Alpinoids and Osteuropids, even more so Berberids, are more Cromagnoid than Nordids are. This makes no sense.

    Dont forget the Upper Palaeolithics became broader and more robust build people during the Ice Age, now the Nordid type is the exact opposite.

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