Outside Western Europe, which of these countries would you categorise as 'Western' and why?

[Tooting Carmen]

I have noticed over the years that the definition of what constitutes the West is highly subjective and variable. Does it mean societies which are predominantly White European? After all, you read travel guides talking about "Western visitors to Japan and South Korea", yet sometimes they are seen as part of the West as well. Does it mean high-income democracies? Because on that definition Japan and South Korea would indeed be included but not Belarus (it is a dictatorship) or Uruguay (it isn't wealthy enough). Anyway, here is a select list of 'ambiguous' countries:

Poland
Czechia
Hungary
Croatia
Serbia
Romania
Bulgaria
Ukraine
Belarus
Russia
Japan
South Korea
Taiwan
Singapore
Hong Kong
UAE
Qatar
Bahrain
Chile
Argentina
Uruguay
Brazil

[Incal]

I think the 'Western' term should be dropped and start to use 'civilized'.

[Tooting Carmen]

I think the 'Western' term should be dropped and start to use 'civilized'.

That's even more subjective and fluffy.

[Kess]

I think the 'Western' term should be dropped and start to use 'civilized'.

and developed.

[Tooting Carmen]

and developed.

Well the HDI classifies much of the MENA, Asia and Latin America/Caribbean as such, so that would make it totally meaningless.

[Tooting Carmen]

Well the HDI classifies much of the MENA, Asia and Latin America/Caribbean as such, so that would make it totally meaningless.

And conversely, there are pockets of Europe like Albania, Bulgaria and Moldova that are not.

[Incal]

That's even more subjective and fluffy.

Not at all.

and developed.

They go hand in hand: if you are civilized you are developed.

Well the HDI classifies much of the MENA, Asia and Latin America/Caribbean as such, so that would make it totally meaningless.

The HDI is useless then.

[Tooting Carmen]

Not at all.




They go hand in hand: if you are civilized you are developed.




The HDI is useless then.

The thing is to be 'developed' doesn't mean you have to be like Switzerland. Nor, conversely, does being 'poor' mean being like Burundi.

[Incal]

The thing is to be 'developed' doesn't mean you have to be like Switzerland. Nor, conversely, does being 'poor' mean being like Burundi.

As always, you are assuming things nobody talked about.

[Tooting Carmen]

As always, you are assuming things nobody talked about.

We are discussing how to define whether a country is 'developed' or 'civilised' or not. In addition to most of Europe bar some but by no means all Balkan countries, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Malaysia, Singapore, Brunei, US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand, we could also include Chile, Argentina, Uruguay, Costa Rica, Panama, some Anglophone Caribbean countries like Bahamas and Trinidad, most Gulf Arab countries, Israel and Turkey.