Irish have Spanish Admixture

[Granada]

There's an intriguing idea floating around about potential genetic ties between the Irish and Spanish populations. Historically speaking, during events like the Spanish Armada's encounters with Ireland, there were instances where Spanish sailors intermingled with local communities. Over time, such interactions could have introduced genetic elements from the Iberian Peninsula into the Irish gene pool. Considering broader genetic studies across Europe, there are shared genetic markers and patterns that suggest some level of interconnection between these regions. It's plausible that there's more genetic overlap than we might initially assume.

[StonyArabia]

I would think the Dutch would have more of it, since Spain actually ruled the area.

[vader]

Irish and Iberians share 3 ancient components at varied proportions. EEF (early european farmer genes), Steppe, 4500 yr old indo-european migration genes, and WHG (western hunter gatherer genes).

This is how Irish compare in their ancient component proportions vs various Spaniards:


as you can analyze, Irish have loads of steppe admixture, lower early european farmer admixture, and higher than the average spaniard western hunter gatherer admixture.

-- my interpretation in regards to your question is this. If an Irish genuinely has Spanish admixture it has to be from areas of Spain that have absolutely 0 taforalt admixtures, or close to it. As taforalt is a fourth ancestral component found amongst almost every iberian at different variation. Irish getting small itty bits of Spanish DNA is more related to our ancestral components in the grand scheme being similar. However, an Irish having Iberian dna to me would probably involve slightly higher EEF, lower Steppe, slightly lower WHG (unless basque), and inclusion of a tiny taforalt trace (depending how recent this ancestor was).

Using this method assumes a more recent relative probably as some more ancient admixture can be undetectable / not inherited etc.

[Grace O'Malley]

There's an intriguing idea floating around about potential genetic ties between the Irish and Spanish populations. Historically speaking, during events like the Spanish Armada's encounters with Ireland, there were instances where Spanish sailors intermingled with local communities. Over time, such interactions could have introduced genetic elements from the Iberian Peninsula into the Irish gene pool. Considering broader genetic studies across Europe, there are shared genetic markers and patterns that suggest some level of interconnection between these regions. It's plausible that there's more genetic overlap than we might initially assume.

There's been plenty of dna studies released on both populations and no they don't have any particular connection. Is there a reason why they would?

No dna study has made a connection with these populations.

Even just using a dna cluster plot if Irish had Spanish admixture it would pull them towards Spain and if it was significant enough they would plot with France but Irish plot with Scots, Welsh and English so how does Spanish admixture explain where Irish plot?

[Grace O'Malley]

Irish and Iberians share 3 ancient components at varied proportions. EEF (early european farmer genes), Steppe, 4500 yr old indo-european migration genes, and WHG (western hunter gatherer genes).

This is how Irish compare in their ancient component proportions vs various Spaniards:


as you can analyze, Irish have loads of steppe admixture, lower early european farmer admixture, and higher than the average spaniard western hunter gatherer admixture.

-- my interpretation in regards to your question is this. If an Irish genuinely has Spanish admixture it has to be from areas of Spain that have absolutely 0 taforalt admixtures, or close to it. As taforalt is a fourth ancestral component found amongst almost every iberian at different variation. Irish getting small itty bits of Spanish DNA is more related to our ancestral components in the grand scheme being similar. However, an Irish having Iberian dna to me would probably involve slightly higher EEF, lower Steppe, slightly lower WHG (unless basque), and inclusion of a tiny taforalt trace (depending how recent this ancestor was).

Using this method assumes a more recent relative probably as some more ancient admixture can be undetectable / not inherited etc.

Even the Irish HGs were not from the same population as Spanish HGs.

In terms of relationships to earlier hunter-gatherer groups, the Mesolithic Irish appear more similar to Italian and Swiss individuals from the Epigravettian and Azilian cultures, rather than the Iberian Magdalenian and later Mesolithic. This suggests the post-glacial colonisation of the island did not occur from a purely Iberian refugia, although these interpretations, based solely on PCA analysis, will be revisited in greater detail in Chapter Three. Importantly, no early Mesolithic samples from Ireland are available, and the possibility of demographic discontinuity within this period cannot be ruled out.

https://pdfhost.io/v/lUE7uywIE_Final...Cassidypdf.pdf

[Grace O'Malley]

There's an intriguing idea floating around about potential genetic ties between the Irish and Spanish populations. Historically speaking, during events like the Spanish Armada's encounters with Ireland, there were instances where Spanish sailors intermingled with local communities. Over time, such interactions could have introduced genetic elements from the Iberian Peninsula into the Irish gene pool. Considering broader genetic studies across Europe, there are shared genetic markers and patterns that suggest some level of interconnection between these regions. It's plausible that there's more genetic overlap than we might initially assume.

Spanish Armada mingling with local communities has been proven to be a myth.

Population geneticist, Dan Bradley of Trinity College Dublin carried out two genetic studies, to debunk the myth of the black irish, and he found little to no trace of Spanish in Irish DNA.

While the term Black Irish followed some families around for generations, it is not typically used as an insult or accusation. In fact, most people are interested to find out that the percentage of Black Irish is actually higher than the number of redheaded Irish. The term has phased out in the last decade, and is more commonly used in the older generation and by Irish Americans.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/...sh/ar-AA1lhbPB

[Anglo-Celtic]

Spanish Armada mingling with local communities has been proven to be a myth.



https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/...sh/ar-AA1lhbPB

The other thread dealt with an irritating pet peeve of my quirky self. Now, it's your turn.

[Laredo]

No Spanish DNA In Ireland bro.

[Grace O'Malley]

Also you have to factor in that there is very little R1b-DF27 in the Irish and in Bronze Age samples they were all R1b-L21. What DF27 is in Ireland was brought in by later populations such as the Normans etc.



I'm quite happy for people to post on this topic but I always am intrigued why this connection is so strong despite the evidence. Another thing is that autosomally the Irish are the most distant to Iberian populations out of English, Scots and Welsh so why is this a recurring theme? As someone pointed out before even the Dutch are closer but it is a persistent theme. I think I could expand on this but interested in what others have to say? (Without the Trolls thank you).

[Beowulf]

Also you have to factor in that there is very little R1b-DF27 in the Irish and in Bronze Age samples they were all R1b-L21. What DF27 is in Ireland was brought in by later populations such as the Normans etc.



I'm quite happy for people to post on this topic but I always am intrigued why this connection is so strong despite the evidence. Another thing is that autosomally the Irish are the most distant to Iberian populations out of English, Scots and Welsh so why is this a recurring theme? As someone pointed out before even the Dutch are closer but it is a persistent theme. I think I could expand on this but interested in what others have to say? (Without the Trolls thank you).

Probably many people still believe the myth of the Milesians.