How much of the English is pure English in England?

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

It is true that Irish surnames are overrepresented among the White working-class/underclass, whether in Wales or elsewhere in Britain.

I'm interested in 'true crime' and noticed Irish surnames kept popping up in regards to the UK (a feared family of gangsters in Manchester surnamed Gallaghers), or if they talk about their background it might come up that they have recent Irish ancestry (for example, I was watching a documentary on the Yorkshire Ripper. His mother was Irish) and Scottish gangster John Burns mother was Irish. If I was to look at surnames I wouldn't know Sutcliffe and Burns had recent Irish ancestry through their mothers. Impossible to check for regular criminals since no one does a biography on a regular criminal.

[Tooting Carmen]

I'm interested in 'true crime' and noticed Irish surnames kept popping up in regards to the UK (a feared family of gangsters in Manchester surnamed Gallaghers), or if they talk about their background it might come up that they have recent Irish ancestry (for example, I was watching a documentary on the Yorkshire Ripper. His mother was Irish) and Scottish gangster John Burns mother was Irish. If I was to look at surnames I wouldn't know Sutcliffe and Burns had recent Irish ancestry through their mothers. Impossible to check for regular criminals since no one does a biography on a regular criminal.

Ironically, those classified as 'White Irish' nowadays are actually among the most middle-class people in Britain of all. They are usually more recent Irish immigrants, whereas it seems the descendants of the Irish skivvies of old are still mostly found among the working classes. Nowadays, we usually bring in Eastern Europeans to do the jobs that the Irish did in the period broadly speaking 1880-1950.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

Ironically, those classified as 'White Irish' nowadays are actually among the most middle-class people in Britain of all. They are usually more recent Irish immigrants, whereas it seems the descendants of the Irish skivvies of old are still mostly found among the working classes. Nowadays, we usually bring in Eastern Europeans to do the jobs that the Irish did in the period broadly speaking 1880-1950.

I suspect - but can't prove - that Irish-Americans are underrepresented in American crime statistics. So I'm very curious about Irish in the UK, especially descendants of older migrations to the UK because most would have started from the very bottom.

The only White ethnic crime statistic I ever came across was in a book I had for Sociology that stated 1% of prison convicts (whenever the study was done) were Italian-American.

[Tooting Carmen]

I suspect - but can't prove - that Irish-Americans are underrepresented in American crime statistics. So I'm very curious about Irish in the UK, especially descendants of older migrations to the UK because most would have started from the very bottom.

The only White ethnic crime statistic I ever came across was in a book I had for Sociology that stated 1% of prison convicts (whenever the study was done) were Italian-American.

Although Irish immigration was mostly very working-class to both countries for a long time, I think the Irish suffered more societal and possibly legal discrimination in the UK than the US.

[Kess]

I don't think the city-countryside gap is so big in that respect, especially factoring in the border regions. For example, rural areas of Gloucestershire, Herefordshire, Shropshire and Cheshire have lots of Welsh surnames; similarly, rural areas of Cumbria and Northumberland have lots of Scottish surnames.

According to Wiki, around 14 million Irish live in the UK. Since the population of Northern Ireland is only 1,903,175, I assume the majority of them live in England.

[Tooting Carmen]

According to Wiki, around 14 million Irish live in the UK. Since the population of Northern Ireland is only 1,903,175, I assume the majority of them live in England.

14 million people with at least partial Irish ancestry, you mean? But yes.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

Although Irish immigration was mostly very working-class to both countries for a long time, I think the Irish suffered more societal and possibly legal discrimination in the UK than the US.

Most likely. Prejudice seems to be the worst from 1840s until the 1860s and then they were able to be a force in city politics in important cities like NYC and make up the police force (the stereotype of the Irish cop).

[AngloEd]

I suspect - but can't prove - that Irish-Americans are underrepresented in American crime statistics. So I'm very curious about Irish in the UK, especially descendants of older migrations to the UK because most would have started from the very bottom.

The only White ethnic crime statistic I ever came across was in a book I had for Sociology that stated 1% of prison convicts (whenever the study was done) were Italian-American.

There is a good study on the Irish in England. Not about crime, but about how the Irish were an in underclass in England. https://neilcummins.com/tie_cog.pdf