Are Spaniards closer to French or Italians?

[Beowulf]

They are more or less half North Italian, half French (main cluster). Many do have recent or more distant French ancestry, in the same way that Catalans on the other side of the border are about halfsies.

Ah okay makes sense.

[Mopi Licinius Crassus]

Catalans are genetically half Spanish, half Southern French ?

[Petalpusher]

Catalans are genetically half Spanish, half Southern French ?

In French Catalonia, yes something like that.

[Melkiirs]

Wasn't Aosta valley like very central French genetically? It is also among my closest samples

Balearics are more East shifted (away from Basques) than most Iberians. You cluster to the Northeast of Iberians like Italian_Aosta_Valley, while Balearics are essentially just more East shifted than most Iberians. This accounts for them being closer to Northern Italians than other Iberians are.

This PCA should make your cluster in relation to other Iberians clear:

Spoiler!

[Melkiirs]

It's not so surprising because "French_south" is only the beige regions below on this pca, and even the "Haute Garonne" region (+ symbol) are already back in the main French cluster. "Pyrenées Atlantiques" region is basically half French, half Basque.









The only region that is actually shifted towards Spain there is "Hautes-Pyrenées" at the border. I guess the Catalans from "Pyrenées Orientales" most likely as well.

Spanish Basques are much closer to Southwest French than any Northern Italians. It looks like the region outside Iberia closest to Iberian groups can vary from Southwest France through Italian-mixed Provence and westernmost shifted North Italian regions including Aosta Valley and Trentino-Alto Adige for the groups farthest from Basques.

[Petalpusher]

Spanish Basques are much closer to Southwest French than any Northern Italians. It looks like the region outside Iberia closest to Iberian groups can vary from Southwest France through Provence all the way to the the westernmost shifted North Italian regions including Aosta Valley and Trentino-Alto Adige for the groups farthest from Basques.

SW are those regions discussed before, studies call it french_south, or southwhest_French, in some old ones it used to be a Toulouse sample. Provence is a sample from Nice, they plot below Aoste because they are ethnically north Italians.

[Flashball]

SW are those regions discussed before, studies call it french_south, or southwhest_French, in some old ones it used to be a Toulouse sample. Provence is a sample from Nice, they plot below Aoste because they are ethnically north Italians.

Aosta Valley = already french shifted
Also some Gaulish are already "basque shifted"

Iron Age France = Basque-like (excess of WHG) to non-basque like French
But doesn't means "iberian admix", just means excess of WHG.

So, SouthWestern French with a more basque shifted = close to some Gaulish with excess of WHG = continuity
Post-Iron Age Spain = differents clusters (basque-like, to non basque-like french, to east-med shifted, to maghrebi shift).

This is a real ethnic provençal sample:
SouthEast(BassesAlpes+Gard),0.128446890454,0.14643 596817100002,0.050327536179399994,0.01843725885999 9764,0.04487612929900001,0.007267012774639993,0.00 22990115859999848,0.00412871612200006,0.0141687300 86999877,0.021325050707999928,-0.004427248554908001,0.005683112051999999,-0.013426734105999996,-0.003294282277999605,0.007530541863000048,0.001109 6216029999606,-0.0018028960980001688,0.0005702859510000116,0.0019 364245190000035,-0.0010191844014000064,0.0027215043320005794,-0.0012782695240000017,-0.0006908925550000149,0.00007200613299994038,0.000 4227839989997123

This is a Drome sample (ethnic) close to the Provence area:
SouthEast(Drome),0.127855,0.147959,0.046363,0.0150 56,0.045189,0.004697,0.001731,0.003125,0.013990,0. 023200,-0.005655,0.007199,-0.015691,-0.004901,0.008048,0.001329,-0.000895,0.000547,0.002721,-0.001087,0.002411,-0.000807,-0.000590,0.003119,-0.000249

[Beowulf]

Distance to:	Scaled
0.01745329	SouthEast(Drome)
0.02121246	SouthEast(BassesAlpes+Gard)

[Melkiirs]

SW are those regions discussed before, studies call it french_south, or southwhest_French, in some old ones it used to be a Toulouse sample. Provence is a sample from Nice, they plot below Aoste because they are ethnically north Italians.

That makes sense. Portuguese and the more Southern/Eastern end of the Iberian cluster are significantly closer to French_Provence than other French regions. Are these full ethnic North Italians and not French-admixed? It appears to be just more Italian shifted than Aoste, but likewise French-Italian mixed. The difference from Aoste is also much more of and West-East than North-South difference.

[Petalpusher]

That makes sense. Portuguese and the more Southern/Eastern end of the Iberian cluster are significantly closer to French_Provence than other French regions. Are these full ethnic North Italians and not French-admixed? It appears to be just more Italian shifted than Aoste, but likewise French-Italian mixed. The difference from Aoste is also much more of and West-East than North-South difference.

Yeah and Portugueses are often even closer to N.Italians than Spanish are ive noticed, im not sure why that is historically however (defies geography but that, is not that uncommon)

It's possible that such in a big town like Nice, they have a few percents of French, like Corsicans might have too, but from genetics they should be almost entirely North Italian like and very similar to the N.Italians in the area on the other side of the border. The reason is that town became French only relatively recently.