Classify some Hungarians from Ukraine and where would you place them?

[ioas12]

People in Moldova have a lot of individuals that pass as East Slavs. Completely normal situation, given that the area was actually part of Kievan Rus and most likely had a Russian population before Romanians came from Transylvania. In counties such as Bacau, Vaslui, Iasi, let alone Botosani, this is not far from the standard look...

As a group, they do have some Magyar influence (you are right), such as this long faced woman (extremely typical for Old Magyars, not for Hungarians today):



So the truth is in between: they are a mixed population showing both elements, but more often the Romanian one.

I think Kievan rus only controlled bukovina and the rest was by cumans

[Universe]

Science is made by professional scientists, profs, and its not based on average peoples personal experience or opinion.

A lot of significant discoveries and inventions in the history of mankind were made by enthusiastic amateurs who never got paid to achieve what they achieved. There were also people who monetized their stuff but only after inventing something, they had been enthusiastic amateurs prior to that.

...

In 1870 population of Hungary was was 5 million (not counting territories annexed in the 1920 treaty), today it's (close to) 10 million.
In 1870 population of Budapest (with suburbs) is 300 thousand. Today it's 2.5 million or more.

This means population of Hungary grew by 2 times Budapest metro area grew by almost 10 times.

So Budapest population grew 5* faster while having similar birthrate to countryside, this means huge amount of people moved to Budapest, majority of immigrants were not ethnic German villagers from Pilis, they were people from all parts of country like today. Dunai's study confirm that ethnic Hungarians from Budapest are genetically similar to ethnic Hungarians from countryside.

[Universe]

Spoiler!

Aherne contradicts himself a lot in his posts.




I've been to Hungary several times and I haven't noticed a large presence of Dinarids there. From what I've seen from my travels they are mainly Alpinids and Borrebies, along with a lot of looks unique for Hungary only. They have other types present as well, but these were the main ones. Basically they look Central Euro but with their own "twist".



Csangos don't look extremely typical Romanian, they have their own look.

No offense but you seem clueless about how Romanians look.








For example this girl looks very foreign to me, like she doesn't look like any Romanian I've seen.



These also don't look Romanian





A lot of people here seem to think Romanians look super Eastern Euro for some reason lol, when that's not the case. I'll soon post a thread with Romanian crowds from all over Romania to get a better picture of how we actually look.

Finally we have a Romanian user who does not say "Hungarians look just like us", I do admit that there are similarities between Hungarians and Romanians, but groups of Hungarians from Hungary and Romanians from Romania just look different. We are not the same. Ethnic Hungarians in Romania more often have Romanian looks than Hungarians from Hungary, but they make up like 10% of all Hungarians.

[Blondie]

In 1870 population of Hungary was was 5 million (not counting territories annexed in the 1920 treaty), today it's (close to) 10 million.
In 1870 population of Budapest (with suburbs) is 300 thousand. Today it's 2.5 million or more.

This means population of Hungary grew by 2 times Budapest metro area grew by almost 10 times.

So Budapest population grew 5* faster while having similar birthrate to countryside, this means huge amount of people moved to Budapest, majority of immigrants were not ethnic German villagers from Pilis, they were people from all parts of country like today. Dunai's study confirm that ethnic Hungarians from Budapest are genetically similar to ethnic Hungarians from countryside.

The problem with it Budapest did not exist in 1870. The founding of the city happened in 1873. And i was talking about in the early 20. century when Budapest was already a huge metropolis, i compared it with present Budapest. I did not say majority of immigrants were germans from Pilisch, i said not every immigrant was hungarian.
Of course budapesters have similar genetic with rural hungarians. I think you have no idea what i wrote or you dont want to understand it.

[Nurzat]

Finally we have a Romanian user who does not say "Hungarians look just like us", I do admit that there are similarities between Hungarians and Romanians, but groups of Hungarians from Hungary and Romanians from Romania just look different. We are not the same. Ethnic Hungarians in Romania more often have Romanian looks than Hungarians from Hungary, but they make up like 10% of all Hungarians.

it is only normal - Hungarians have a Germanic-like component (which I don't know if it's German but it is certainly Western-like) that Romanians mostly lack, especially proper Romanians from Transylvania and the South (while Moldovans have a bit of that component, but Moldovans are basically pre-Ukrainians (Ruthenians) over which came Hungarians (Csangos) and Romanians (Vlachs)).

it is also very visible when Romania plays Hungary in sports, sometimes it looks like they're not even neighbouring countries

however, I do see an even stronger division along the Carpathians in looks, though there is overlap of course, since the Vlach population poured into Moldova from Transylvania mostly and did it until as late as 19th century in different waves, but generally West of the Carpathians you have much more Dinaric and core Balkan looks and East of the Carpathians much more Black Sea faces (Pontic and its mixes with Neodanubian) and much more overlap with the Pontic steppe than the other parts of Romania have - it is also visible when you make a PCA plot of Moldovans vs Transylvanians vs South Romania (with the exception or Maramuresh, which must have Hungarian and Ukrainian mix, it clusters with neighbouring northern Moldova/Bukovina).

btw, I've worked with several Csangos at different jobs and they all looked off for Romanians, most being blonds with either very Northern or very Western faces compared to their geography, and a couple of them having striking Mongoloid features in the eyes and cheekbones, a former colleague even said people asked her if she's Filipina during vacation in Italy, though that's ridiculous, she didn't look like one at all, but the general public is very ignorant of looks, though they did read well the Asian influence. otherwise, Csango cluster close to Szekely and markedly outside the Romanian clusters, see this:

[Blondie]

Finally we have a Romanian user who does not say "Hungarians look just like us", I do admit that there are similarities between Hungarians and Romanians, but groups of Hungarians from Hungary and Romanians from Romania just look different. We are not the same. Ethnic Hungarians in Romania more often have Romanian looks than Hungarians from Hungary, but they make up like 10% of all Hungarians.

Hungarians and romanians are very similar in every way, not just the looking, but kultur too. Of course some hungarian chauvinist dont want any relation with romanians because historical hostility, but this is the truth. Try to accept it

[Blondie]

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Darkwashing of romanians is very popular in this forum, but they are definitely much lighter than average balkanites. The western washing of hungarians, always comparing them to austrians is another obsession here. They are very different, not just the looking, but political system, kultur etc, Austria is totally alien to Hungary in every way.

[Nurzat]

Hungarians and romanians are very similar in every way, not just the looking, but kultur too. Of course some hungarian chauvinist dont want any relation with romanians because historical hostility, but this is the truth. Try to accept it

the difference is that, beyond the common Balkan/Eastcentral Euro looks (Alpines, Dinarics, Mediterraneans and their mixes), some Hungarians look German while some Romanians look Russian - for the rest they're similar, but these minority looks are relevant enough and pop-up commonly enough to make groups stand apart (in general), but on individual level of course it's harder to tell, apart from more uncommon types.

culturally I'd say there was a difference that now disappears with the homogenization of all Western national cultures - Hungarians have a mindset built on a more Western-leaning Catholic and Calvinist tradition, while Romanians have an Oriental mindset built on Orthodoxy

Darkwashing of romanians is very popular in this forum, but they are definitely much lighter than average balkanites. The western washing of hungarians, always comparing them to austrians is another obsession here. They are very different, not just the looking, but political system, kultur etc, Austria is totally alien to Hungary in every way.

that was no darkwashing, I even said the main divide is not even between Hungarians and Transylvanian Romanians, but along the Carpathians, so what you're saying is nothing linked to my actual post.

about average Balkanites being dark or much darker, as you say: I disagree, Bulgaria when I visited didn't seem any more Mediterranean than northeast Romania at all, despite clustering more towards the Greeks genetically, then the ex-Yugos I doubt are "darker", actually no one said anything of "dark" types, you just brought that to the discussion from nowhere, to stir the topic to a dark vs light discussion no one is actually having.

and despite the slight regional variations around Europe, I am one of those who think the differences in looks are hugely exaggerated and the stereotypes don't live up to the situation in the territory and that a lot of people from any region of the continent pass to a degree to many other regions, except for some particular uncommon and very local looks.

I doubt your first, second or third guess for this team would be Ukrainian (which they are):

Spoiler!

[Universe]

Hungarians and romanians are very similar in every way, not just the looking, but kultur too. Of course some hungarian chauvinist dont want any relation with romanians because historical hostility, but this is the truth. Try to accept it

Are you trying to troll/provoke me as usual? I am not Hungarian chauvinist, I couldn't care less if we are similar to Romanians, I've never even argued with Romanian members here unlike you ( I did argue with dviz / ixulescu on anthroscape about Romanian vs Hungarian phenotypes back in the day, that was many years ago, nowadays we're on good terms with each other)

You're the one that is hungarian chauvinist or at least act like one sometimes. I do remember you got very angry when one Romanian member claimed Romania is similar to Hungary in terms of per capita economic output. I also remember your nostalgia feelings for Greater-Hungary.

The western washing of hungarians, always comparing them to austrians is another obsession here. They are very different, not just the looking, but political system, kultur etc, Austria is totally alien to Hungary in every way.

It is funny because your fitting that description too. You like to say Hungarians are similar to Czechs too.

[Nurzat]

I do remember you got very angry when one Romanian member claimed Romania is similar to Hungary in terms of per capita economic output.

then I've got bad news for Blondie.

here's Romanian and Hungarian regions by purchasing power per capita, 2022, mixed, wealthiest to poorest - pretty similar:

capital regions
Bucharest - Ilfov (Romania) 62,900
Budapest (Hungary) 56,100

under 30k:
West (Romania) 26,700
Centre (Romania) 25,200
Central Transdanubia (Hungary) 25,000

under 25k:
North West (Romania) 24,700
Western Transdanubia (Hungary) 24,100
Pest (Hungary) 23,100
South East (Romania) 21,400
South West - Oltenia (Romania) 20,300
South - Muntenia (Romania) 20,200

under 20k:
Southern Great Plain (Hungary) 19,600
Southern Transdanubia (Hungary) 18,500
Northern Great Plain (Hungary) 17,700
Northern Hungary (Hungary) 17,600
North East (Romania) 16,300


our wealthier regions (though I would not call them wealthy, they are just the better performing in the area, but still lagging versus Western Europe) are those regions that used to be part of Hungary and in Romania Hungarian legacy is considered a legacy of higher civilization than the Ottoman legacy of the rest of the country. while the pearl of the crown is Bukovina, who was not under Hungary (Transleithania) but a region of Austria (Cisleithania)