Spain & veto over Scotland's EU membership

[Comte Arnau]

Spain could wield veto over Scotland's EU membership

Independence for Scots could embolden separatists in Catalonia and Basque region, Madrid fears



Spain is standing in the way of Scotland's ambitions to become an independent nation within the European Union because of fears that it could spark the break-up of the Spanish state.

Spanish officials have registered concerns with counterparts in the United Kingdom over the Scottish government's independence blueprint, senior Whitehall sources confirmed yesterday.

Spain has indicated it could block an independent Scotland's accession to the European Union, sources said. It has already refused to recognise Kosovo's existence as an independent state. Madrid fears such moves will encourage separatist ambitions in Spanish regions, particularly Catalonia and the Basque region. Spain's refusal to recognise Kosovo has frustrated the former Serbian province's ambitions to enter the union.

The Catalan premier, Artur Mas, last week drew parallels with Scotland as he argued for a new financial deal with Madrid. "Spain refuses to speak publicly about Scotland at this stage," a senior Foreign Office source said yesterday. "But they have been making it clear for a number of years they are apprehensive about the prospect of Scotland becoming independent. The renewed debate about the referendum has started it all again."

A senior UK minister said: "We understand the Scottish view is they would wish to join the UN but they would not wish to join Nato. They might wish to join the EU, but we fully expect Spain to block it, fearing it might encourage the separatist spirit on their doorstep."

A Spanish veto would undermine claims an independent Scotland could immediately operate as a viable state. Although Alex Salmond insists Scotland would be able to join the EU following a "yes" vote in a referendum, experts maintain membership would not come automatically.

An official House of Commons briefing paper on the subject points out decisions on membership must be agreed unanimously by all EU member states. It added: "It is worth considering, if there is a continuing UK, it would have a vote on an independent Scotland's accession application, as would other member states with their own internal regional independence issues, such as Spain."

Professor Thomas Giegerich, an international law expert at Edinburgh University, said it would be "diplomatically difficult" for Scotland to join the EU after a "yes" vote, with other member states "reluctant" to anger the UK. However, a Scottish National Party spokesman said it was "preposterous" to suggest that Scotland could be excluded from the EU. He said: "Scotland has been an integral part of the EU for almost 40 years. An independent Scotland would be a succession state, not an accession state, and there is no provision for citizens of the EU to be expelled."

The implications an independence vote could have beyond UK borders emerged as the latest front in a war of attrition between London and Edinburgh. Mr Salmond will begin a counteroffensive this week with the launch of a consultation on an independence referendum. On Tuesday, the First Minister will be in London to promote the idea of a "new union of independent countries".

Michael Moore, the Secretary of State for Scotland, called on Mr Salmond to use his launch "to address the key issues that currently stand in the way of a referendum". He added: "I hope they will acknowledge the Scottish Parliament does not have the power to hold a legal referendum, and that a Section 30 order devolving that power is the best way to proceed."


Source: The Independent

[Occident]

Spain would be doing Scotland a big favour. The would be enabling them to become, you know... an actualy independant state, as opposed to one ruled from Brussels. Of course, independance in any real sense is not something the SNP have any desire for.

[Graham]

Spain would be doing Scotland a big favour. The would be enabling them to become, you know... an actualy independant state, as opposed to one ruled from Brussels. Of course, independance in any real sense is not something the SNP have any desire for.

I think the SNP are muddying the water to bring in more potential voters for independence. Australia and Ireland both kept the Monarchy and pound when first made independent.

But oh no! what will we ever do without the EU.

[Occident]

Hasnt keeping the monarchy always been the plan for Scotland? Doing so is a sensible way to help reconcile conservative unionist Scots to the new situation should seccession occur.

The problem for the SNP is that the EU has for so long been part of it's platform, part of it's case for Scotland being able to stand without England. I think you and me both know Scotland will be just fine out of that socialist monstrosity, but some SNP voters may be concerned by this development. Had the SNP advocated real independance from the beginning it wouldnt be an issue.

[Graham]

Hasnt keeping the monarchy always been the plan for Scotland? Doing so is a sensible way to help reconcile conservative unionist Scots to the new situation should seccession occur.

The problem for the SNP is that the EU has for so long been part of it's platform, part of it's case for Scotland being able to stand without England. I think you and me both know Scotland will be just fine out of that socialist monstrosity, but some SNP voters may be concerned by this development. Had the SNP advocated real independance from the beginning it wouldnt be an issue.

It's Burns Supper on Wednesday. Which is particularly celebrated(yummy Haggis). We will see proper plans on independence then, so stay tuned.

[Graham]

Salmond Calls For 'Relationship Of Equals'
http://news.sky.com/home/politics/article/16154171
Alex Salmond has called for a "positive relationship of equals" between Scotland and England under his independence plans.

The Scottish First Minister hit out at "injudicious" comments from pro-union Westminster leaders - and claimed Prime Minister David Cameron snubbed his calls for a meeting "six times over the last six months".

The Scottish National Party (SNP) leader also branded calls for an English parliament debating laws which affect only English voters "thoroughly sensible" and demanded "a new and better, adult, grown-up relationship of equals between Scotland and England".

He said: "We will share a monarch, we will share a currency and, under our proposals, we will share a social union, but we won't have diktats from Westminster for Scotland and we won't have Scottish MPs poking their nose into English business in the House of Commons."

He added: "There have been a lot of rather injudicious things said by Westminster politicians about Scotland.


"I will be a lot more positive about the future of England than people like David Cameron have been hitherto about the future of Scotland."

Mr Salmond, who launches a consultation on Wednesday about how the 2014 referendum will run, blasted claims Scottish taxpayers would be forced to fund cleaning up waste left behind if Britain's nuclear Trident submarines had to quit their base at Faslane on the Clyde under SNP plans for a nuclear-free Scotland.

"Clearly an independent Scotland wouldn't want to have the largest concentration of weapons of mass destruction in the continent of Europe," he told Sky News' Murnaghan programme.

"What's unreasonable is the Defence Secretary saying, 'We will land you with a bill for the clean-up costs'.

"You can't have weapons of mass destruction based in Scotland for the last 60 years and then tell the people of Scotland, 'We will give you a bill for the clean-up costs'.

"That's daft language."

Former Chief of the General Staff Sir Richard Dannatt, appearing earlier on the programme, said the nuclear issue was a very real and expensive one.

"The infrastructure that supports our nuclear deterrent, all in Scotland, was hugely expensive to put in place," he said.

"If the UK, without Scotland still wants to be a nuclear-capable nations, all of that will need to be replicated in the south," he said, a process that will be "very expensive".

"It is not just an issue regarding Scotland, it regards the rest of us as well," he said.

Mr Salmond pledged to "rise above that sort of scaremongering nonsense" and also dismissed claims Scotland could be forced to abandon the pound if electors voted for independence.

He said: "Sterling is a tradable currency. You can't stop anybody using Sterling, but why on earth would you want to stop Scotland using Sterling?"

[Albion]

This is hillarious, Salmond will have a fit.

But really it highlights how Spain is basically holding regions within the country against their will and denying the rights of the people to their own nations.

The Scottish National Party (SNP) leader also branded calls for an English parliament debating laws which affect only English voters "thoroughly sensible" and demanded "a new and better, adult, grown-up relationship of equals between Scotland and England".

Good, at least a fairly major politician is behind it now. But I think he doesn't really give a fuck about England, he is merely trying to provoke a English backlash against the union to breakup the UK one way or the other.
I'm not against this, he speaks for both nations better than any prominent politician south of the border and is proposing to at least make the union better even if Scotland doesn't leave it.

If the referendum comes back saying no then Salmond needs to push for the UK to adopt a truly federal structure of equal powers to each nation and a high degree of autonomy. That would save the union much to his displeasure but would also benefit Scotland and the other nations.

He said: "We will share a monarch, we will share a currency and, under our proposals, we will share a social union, but we won't have diktats from Westminster for Scotland and we won't have Scottish MPs poking their nose into English business in the House of Commons."

Good.

blasted claims Scottish taxpayers would be forced to fund cleaning up waste left behind if Britain's nuclear Trident submarines had to quit their base at Faslane on the Clyde under SNP plans for a nuclear-free Scotland.

The UK should do that.

"Clearly an independent Scotland wouldn't want to have the largest concentration of weapons of mass destruction in the continent of Europe," he told Sky News' Murnaghan programme.

I thought that role went to France, although the whole coast from Barrow to Faslane is probably radioactive by now.

"If the UK, without Scotland still wants to be a nuclear-capable nations, all of that will need to be replicated in the south," he said, a process that will be "very expensive".

I doubt the nukes would be sent south of the border immediately, there'd probably be a few years for the remanant UK to build a base at Barrow or along Devon and Cornwall somewhere.

Mr Salmond pledged to "rise above that sort of scaremongering nonsense" and also dismissed claims Scotland could be forced to abandon the pound if electors voted for independence.

He said: "Sterling is a tradable currency. You can't stop anybody using Sterling, but why on earth would you want to stop Scotland using Sterling?"

I thought Salmond wanted to join the Euro? What happened to that? Well Scotland could continue to use its own pounds which would be transfered over to its own control. It could either stick with them and peg them to the English pound or have them independent over it, join the Euro... maybe, or create a new dollar as some have said.

[Germanicus]

It would cost an Independent Scotland £3.33 million a day to be in the European Union, based on 5 million population.

It currently costs the entire United Kingdom £40 Million a day to be part of the European Union.


http://www.oilofscotland.org/

[Amapola]

Good done Spain, for once.

[Graham]

On the Night of Rabbie Burns. A poem fit for our Unionist Labour, Lib Dems, Conservative Mp's and Lords.

A Parcel of Rogues in a Nation
1.
Fareweel to a' our Scottish fame,
Fareweel our ancient glory!
Fareweel ev'n to the Scottish name.
Sae famed in martial story!
Now Sark rins over Salway sands,
An' Tweed rins to the ocean,
To mark where England's province stands --
Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!
2.
What force or guile could not subdue
Thro' many warlike ages
Is wrought now by a coward few
For hireling traitor's wages.
The English steel we could disdain,
Secure in valour's station;
But English gold has been our bane --
Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!
3.
O, would, or I had seen the day
That Treason thus could sell us,
My auld grey head had lien in clay
Wi' Bruce and loyal Wallace!
But pith and power, till my last hour
I'll mak this declaration :-
'We're bought and sold for English gold'--
Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!

------------------------

Farewell to all our Scottish fame,
Farewell our ancient glory!
Farewell even to the Scottish name.
So famed in martial story!
Now Sark runs over Salway sands,
And Tweed runs to the ocean,
To mark where England's province stands -
Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!

What force or guile could not subdue
Through many warlike ages
Is wrought now by a coward few
For hireling traitor's wages.
The English steel we could disdain,
Secure in valour's station;
But English gold has been our bane -
Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!

O, would, or I had seen the day
That Treason thus could sell us,
My old grey head had lain in clay (be buried)
With Bruce and loyal Wallace!
But pith and power, till my last hour
I will make this declaration :-
'We are bought and sold for English gold'-
Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!