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Thread: United Ireland, 2016

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    My Countship is not of this world Comte Arnau's Avatar
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    Default United Ireland, 2016

    ‘United Ireland vote by 2016’ says Martin McGuinness

    Decision of when vote would occur in the hands of the British secretary of state


    Martin McGuinness, deputy first minister in Northern Ireland and member of Sinn Fein, recently said that he expects a referendum vote as to whether or not Northern Ireland will remain a part of the United Kingdom as early as 2016.

    In an interview with The Irish Examiner, McGuinness said that he is hopeful that a referendum could be held at the next term of the Belfast Assembly in 2016.

    "It just seems to me to be a sensible timing,” McGuinness told The Irish Examiner. “It would be on the question of whether or not the people of the Six Counties wish to retain the link with what is described as the United Kingdom, or be part of a united Ireland. It could take place anytime between 2016 or 2020-21.”



    "I think, in all probability,” added McGuinness, “the people who have got the power to put that in place won’t even contemplate it this side of the next Assembly elections, which conceivably could be 2015 or 2016."

    As per the Good Friday Agreement, the final decision as to when a referendum will be held is in the hands of the British secretary of state.

    Recently, the Nationalist government in Edinburgh has roused up some controversy with their own considerations to leave the United Kingdom as well, saying that it will be put to a vote as soon as 2014.

    In regards to what he believes citizens are looking for by way of reunification, McGuinness said, “People will make a decision on the potential that the reunification of Ireland can bring for them in terms of political stability and in terms of having economic levers in their own hands.”

    He also added that he does not believe that the Republic of Ireland’s recent economic disasters will greatly influence the potential referendum vote.

    While a Catholic majority is expected within the next generation in the Six Counties, McGuinness “said it was ‘too sectarian’ to expect people to vote on strictly religious lines.”

    In other moments in his interview with The Irish Examiner, McGuinness appears to have relaxed his stance on Queen Elizabeth II. He noted that he has been invited to garden parties at Buckingham Palace, and that he felt the Queen’s mention of what "we would wish had been done differently, or not at all" at her speech at Dublin Castle in May was a direct reference to the Bloody Sunday massacre forty years ago.


    Source: Irish Central
    < La Catalogne peut se passer de l'univers entier, et ses voisins ne peuvent se passer d'elle. > Voltaire

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    If Scotland does break away then an United Ireland is only inevitable. And so is Welsh independence.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Dušan View Post
    If Scotland does break away then an United Ireland is only inevitable. And so is Welsh independence.

    Northern Ireland - maybe
    Wales - never


    You have to remember that Ireland is a weak and neutral country which is greatly more dependent on England than it is on them.

    The UK has the Falklands 15,000 miles away and places as far flung as Pitcairn, Tristan da Cunha and Gibraltar - it is more than capable of keeping hold of Northern Ireland if it wanted to.

    But politically the issue of Scotland leaving would prompt Northern Ireland to question its place too. I think Catholic Irish have begun to outbreed the Protestant unionists, so if there were a vote then it could go to Ireland.
    Personally I'm all for it. I'm sick of the UK and those whiny Celtic cry babies.
    Even united together with each other the Celts are no good, the Irish and Scots fight each other in Glasgow over religion and football.
    Celts have nations that have been fiercely independent as has England, the mentality relating to that means that they can never form a peaceful union.

    Ireland was traditionally ruled as a vassal / occupied kingdom before it joined the union and then left. It still does play second fiddle to England to an extent.
    I have English and Irish ancestry (both catholic and protestant), but I don't want NI to remain in the UK, it goes against its history.


    Wales is a totally different story. It has been under strong English control (unlike Ireland which was forever rebelling) and was never totally united before England took charge.
    The English for a long time kept it as a separate kingdom but incorporated it into England with an earlier Act of Union. In the 1950s it was split off from England and had a government by the millennium.
    Wales is economically dependent upon England and few would dispute this unlike with Scotland. It needs a larger nation to support it whether it be Germany in the EU or England.
    Not many Welsh people want independence, they're a minority -15% max. If Scotland and NI go, Wales will probably stay with England in a sort of federation by default.
    They're still legally tied to some degree still and I think that most Welsh people are happy enough to stay in union with England so long as they get to govern themselves (the Welsh government keeps getting more powers).

    Scotland and NI are a pain in the arse, Wales is barely noticeable. I wouldn't care if they remained with England so long as they didn't start mithering. England would assume control over the UK parliament by occupying the vast majority of seats whilst Wales could have a very autonomous government to do as it saw fit.


    You have to remember that England is ~85% of the economy, ~90% of the population and much of the land area. It doesn't really matter to us if the others go, but close co-operation would be desirable and will probably remain.

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    Why should the lesser island be united? Little different than the greater.

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    I'd really like to see the Irish at peace and reunited, but I don't think it is happening anytime soon.

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    My Countship is not of this world Comte Arnau's Avatar
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    If united, would the northern Irish ask for a special status within the Republic? How big would the rivalry be between Dublin and Belfast?
    < La Catalogne peut se passer de l'univers entier, et ses voisins ne peuvent se passer d'elle. > Voltaire

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    Quote Originally Posted by Count Arnau View Post
    If united, would the northern Irish ask for a special status within the Republic? How big would the rivalry be between Dublin and Belfast?
    I've actually proposed this before but it'd require a change to their constitution. A autonomous area within the republic for the protestant areas would be a nice compromise and they'd perhaps be better with that than full incorporation into the republic.

    Belfast and Dublin used to be very competitive. Dublin declined greatly after independence, Belfast was always the industrial heartland and Dublin the governing area. Belfast=Barcelona, Dublin=Madrid.
    There's still some rivalry between them but Dublin has won out over Belfast now. I don't think they care too much any more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Count Arnau View Post
    If united, would the northern Irish ask for a special status within the Republic? How big would the rivalry be between Dublin and Belfast?

    that was one of the issues in the peace talks ? to carry british passports and remain british subjects in a united ireland. i think the loyalist's rejected that offer too.

    it seems no matter what concessions the brits and irish offer the loyalists in exchange for peace...they always dig their heels in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by foreverblue View Post
    that was one of the issues in the peace talks ? to carry british passports and remain british subjects in a united ireland. i think the loyalist's rejected that offer too.

    it seems no matter what concessions the brits and irish offer the loyalists in exchange for peace...they always dig their heels in.
    UK and Irish citizenships may as well be the same thing, more so in NI. If you were born anywhere in the island of Ireland you can be an Irish citizen, if you have Irish grandparents (which a few Brits do) then you can be an Irish citizen. Alternatively in NI you can be a British citizen which is the norm.
    I could probably apply for it, yayyyyyyyyyyy.....

    It makes little difference anyway due to this. It is a bit like your Trans-Tasman agreement.

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    As everyone knows, I'm a strong anti-unionist. I want to see all of the countries separated. However, I want to see them working together, rather than drift apart. It could create a better British alliance without having someone else rule over your own country.

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