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Thread: Confederate History Month Honors Deadliest Traitors in U.S. History

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    Default Confederate History Month Honors Deadliest Traitors in U.S. History

    http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/04...s-in-u-s-hist/

    Let us use the waning days of Confederate History Month to settle an important question about America's past. I raised the issue parenthetically in my last post when I wondered "why a patriotic current citizen of the United States of America would want to celebrate what were unarguably the deadliest traitors in our nation's history."

    While I figured the remark would provoke some folks, I really didn't think there could be much debate about the correct answer to the question: Were the Confederate leaders and soldiers traitors to anybody loyal to the United States?

    And yet, Georgia Gov. Sonny Perdue starts his proclamation of Confederate History Month this way:

    "April is the month in which the Confederate States of America began a four-year conflict in the Civil War. Confederate Memorial Day on April 26 is a time when Georgians honor the more than 90,000 brave men and women who served the Confederate States of America. Georgia joined the Confederacy in January 1861 when a convention ratified the ordinance of secession, and Georgia has long cherished her Confederate history and the great leaders who made sacrifices on her behalf . . ."

    He goes on: "WHEREAS: It is important that Georgians reflect upon our state's past and honor and respect the devotion of her Confederate leaders, soldiers and citizens . . . "

    Yes, it is important that Georgians (and other Americans) reflect on the history of the Civil War. So let me give away my ending right up front: Of course the Confederates were traitors. By definition.

    I realize these were once fighting words. Certainly they were in the early 1860s south of the Mason-Dixon Line. And even in the halls of the U.S. Congress in 1920, if the New York Times is to be believed. The headline from May 19 suggests something just short of a brawl: "Madden Again Calls Confederates Traitors; Barely Escapes Attack in House Uproar."

    Here are some details:

    "A reiterated statement by Representative Madden, Republican, of Illinois, in the House today that Confederates of civil war days were traitors evoked a storm of protests from Southern members...The Confederates were traitors because they attempted to destroy the Union, Mr. Madden said, and asked: 'Does anybody deny it?'

    "...Mr. Stedman [a North Carolina Democrat] drew cheers from the Democrats when he said that no one questioned the bravery or integrity of Robert E. Lee and that Mr. Madden was 'alone in a wilderness of his own creation.'"
    Let us join Mr. Madden so that he is no longer alone. And examine some of the comments and e-mails I got in response to my earlier post:

    "If we use your reasoning, then we must be a nation of traitors because of the Revolutionary War and the immigration of millions of people from other countries who abandoned their homelands to become citizens of the USA. That makes you one too."
    Yes and no. From the position of the British, of course the Americans were traitors. But no, immigration does not constitute treason. See more below.

    "There are a lot of things people in this world can learn from Southern values - like honor and integrity (to name just a couple)."
    To paraphrase Shakespeare, I am sure that the South included many such honorable men.

    "The issue was not just slavery – that was but a small part of it – the overriding issue was states rights, and this is the part, that those who feel the South was wrong, would have people forget about."
    Horsepucky. My Politics Daily colleague Carl Cannon has already written a thorough piece that explodes the lie that the Confederacy was not essentially about slavery. I will only add that those who claim the Confederacy was defending "states rights" or a "way of life"-- and not slavery -- make as much sense as someone who says, "I'm obese because I eat too much candy. Sugar has nothing to do with it."

    What this is not about, by the way, is the bravery or lack of it among the Confederates. In most wars, America's enemies have had soldiers whose fighting was so brave that it produced grudging admiration in our troops and leaders. No question that some of the Confederate generals and troops fought bravely. But that was true of some of the Germans and Japanese in World War II, the enemy flying aces of WW I, and so on.

    What is treason, anyway? The U.S. Constitution offers the specific American definition in Article III, Section 3:

    "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort."
    (Which means, of course, that simply emigrating from another nation to this one does not make you a traitor to the Old Country, at least not by American standards.) Is there any question that the Confederate leaders and soldiers levied war against the United States? You will read elsewhere that this is not the case, because "secession was legal." And only Lincoln's decision to invade triggered the war.

    Here is a point you will read offered as evidence on any number of pro-Dixie Web sites: No member of the Confederacy was ever convicted of treason. Not even Jefferson Davis, the Confederate president. As one site purports to explain:

    "The trial was never held, because the chief justice of the Supreme Court, Mr. Salmon Portland Chase, informed President Andrew Johnson that if Davis were placed on trial for treason the United States would lose the case because nothing in the Constitution forbids secession."
    Which would no doubt have been a surprise to Mr. Chase, who eventually wrote the definitive Supreme Court decision declaring secession illegal. As he put it in Texas v White (1869):

    "When, therefore, Texas became one of the United States, she entered into a indissoluble relation. All the obligations of perpetual union, and all the guaranties of republican government in the Union, attached at once to the State. The Act which consummated her admission into the Union was something more than a compact; it was the incorporation of a new member into the political body. And it was final."

    Secession was legal? Not from the American perspective. Could Lincoln have preserved the Union except through war? That argument ended at Fort Sumter.

    The reason that Davis was not tried was that U.S. President Andrew Johnson issued a series of pardons, each one broader than the next, in an attempt to speed the reconciliation of the former Rebels to the nation. In Davis' specific case, his lawyers claimed that the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution had already punished Davis and that a second trial would constitute an unconstitutional double jeopardy. Davis may well have won that argument, but not because he was innocent of treason.

    I imagine that many people who cheer the current Confederate History Month proclamations – even the governors of those states – have solemnly intoned the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag at any number of official functions, right hands over their hearts. The Pledge of Allegiance was written in August 1892 by the socialist minister Francis Bellamy. His original version read:

    "I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
    Over the years, editors have niggled with a few of the words. And a Cold War Congress inserted a bit of religion. But the ideal of "one nation, indivisible" remains. So what exactly is the devotion that Gov. Perdue is choosing to honor? Georgians who rebelled against the United States in an attempt to maintain a way of life that depended upon the ownership of other human beings. And who joined in a war against American troops that eventually took more than 600,000 lives.

    I jest when I suggest that my analysis will settle this question here. I went searching for a historian or two whose judgment would be better informed than mine. Let's start with Eric Foner, DeWitt Clinton Professor of History at Columbia University, and author of several books about the years leading up to, during, and after the Civil War.

    "I guess it all depends on what wording you wish to use. No one in the Confederacy was tried and convicted for treason after the war. However, many leaders lost their civil and political rights for a time. The 14th Amendment speaks of people who took an oath of allegiance to the US and then fought against it, which seems like treason although the word is not used. Confederates certainly were disloyal to the US. That was the whole point of their struggle."
    Which seems clear to me. Let's try one more. George Henry Hoemann is assistant dean, Distance Education and Independent Study at the University of Tennessee, and is co-author and maintainer of the detailed and impressive American Civil War Homepage.

    "The reality is, of course, that the entire war was about the issue of whether or not states could legally secede. If the South had won, the answer would have been 'yes.' The South didn't win, and the answer is 'no.'"
    And that may be the simplest explanation for why the American answer to the question "Was it treason?" is: Yes.

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    First, let me say that on higher moral grounds (ignoring realpolitik and similar such matters) the South had no right to secede if its chief purpose was to continue slavery - a violation of human rights. While I'm generally sympathetic to secessionist causes, I draw the line at those secession acts that purport or even promise to bring about human rights violations, suppression of democratic institutions, and anything else that destroys the dignity and self-respect of the people they govern. With that said, I'll continue.

    Article III, Section 3:

    "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort."
    (Which means, of course, that simply emigrating from another nation to this one does not make you a traitor to the Old Country, at least not by American standards.) Is there any question that the Confederate leaders and soldiers levied war against the United States? You will read elsewhere that this is not the case, because "secession was legal." And only Lincoln's decision to invade triggered the war.
    In the end, the Constitution says nothing about this matter. In this case, where there is reasonable constitutional doubt, there is at least some reason to suppose secession was not illegal. In fact, because the Constitution did not forbid it, one could argue strongly that secession was a legally permissible act.

    In this case, the "treason" charge could be applied only to people who continue purporting to be loyal to the government who levied the charge of treason. In this case, say, someone wearing the uniform of the U.S. military, or a citizen who did not renounce his or her citizenship before going to the other side, or a similar such case where there was no mistake about where their purported and reasonably assumed loyalties lie.

    In the case of the CSA leaders, the states in question already seceded months before hostilities commenced. Therefore, while the CSA was a certainly an enemy power, it's questionable whether "traitor" rightfully describes the CSA leaders (or leaders of any other secessionist movement for that matter).

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    Written by a Jew, what a shock!

    Weiss most likely sided with Israel after the attack on the USS Liberty and he's calling others traitors? Jews have betrayed every country they ever lived in.

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    Originally Posted by Phil75231
    In the end, the Constitution says nothing about this matter. In this case, where there is reasonable constitutional doubt, there is at least some reason to suppose secession was not illegal.
    By the same logic I could renounce my citizenship, join al Qaeda, fly a plane into the Sears Tower and say I wasn't waging "war against" the US because I was no longer a loyal US citizen.

    Which certainly follows. I'd no longer be loyal because I had renounced my citizenship and joined myself to a foreign cause to wage war on the United States. It'd make me a sort of Confederate in that case.

    It's true that the Constitution doesn't explicitly forbid secession, but nor does it say that disloyal secessionists are exempt from treason charges if they wage war against the United States. The Confederates were actively waging war against the very existence of the United States by seceding and taking up arms against the United States. What is this if not treason against the United States?

    At best the secession is not treason argument is based on a very technical and pedantic use of wording. Essentially a legal loophole argument. It certainly isn't in unison with the spirit of the treason clause though.
    Last edited by Joe McCarthy; 02-12-2012 at 09:21 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by leibowitz View Post
    Written by a Jew, what a shock!

    Weiss most likely sided with Israel after the attack on the USS Liberty and he's calling others traitors? Jews have betrayed every country they ever lived in.
    A Jew like leading Confederate official Judah Benjamin you mean:



    There's little doubt the Union was more anti-Jewish than the Confederacy with Grant and Sherman taking anti-Jewish measures. Playing the Jewish card in this matter is just dumb.
    Last edited by Joe McCarthy; 02-12-2012 at 08:57 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe McCarthy View Post
    A Jew like leading Confederate official Judah Benjamin you mean:



    There's little doubt the Union was more anti-Jewish than the Confederacy with Grant and Sherman taking anti-Jewish measures. Playing the Jewish card in this matter is just dumb.
    I'm talking about today. Jews like Bill Maher and others are always denigrating the South, especially the old Confederacy, and calling Southerners traitors. Today, American Jews are overwhelmingly anti-Christian, anti-white and anti-Southern.

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    Yeah...a nation built on secession and rebellion calling secessionists and rebels 'traitors'. What is the difference between the confederates and the american revolutionaries by chance?

    Slavery was legal.

    Most people back then were white supremacists to one degree or another.

    They wanted to make their own nation.

    Maybe the confederates were under the impression that the United States was a voluntary union not held together by the barrel of a gun.


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    Quote Originally Posted by zack View Post
    Yeah...a nation built on secession and rebellion calling secessionists and rebels 'traitors'. What is the difference between the confederates and the american revolutionaries by chance?
    In British eyes we were traitors in the Revolutionary War. Unfortunately for the British, the Confederates, and Charles I, they were all facing Puritans or Puritan descendants.

    An argument can be made though that the British crown forfeited its legitimacy by inciting domestic insurrection against us by our slaves and the Amerinds. If you'd care to argue that Union actions against the South were as egregious as British actions were against the colonies, I'd be happy to listen.

    In reality Southern hotheads didn't need to secede at all. Just the threat of it would have caused a moderate Unionist like Lincoln to back down. They lost their minds and the result was the Reconstruction Amendments which have had terrible long term consequences.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe McCarthy View Post
    By the same logic I could renounce my citizenship, join al Qaeda, fly a plane into the Sears Tower and say I wasn't waging "war against" the US because I was no longer a loyal US citizen.

    Which certainly follows. I'd no longer be loyal because I had renounced my citizenship and joined myself to a foreign cause to wage war on the United States. It'd make me a sort of Confederate in that case.
    I actually have no problem with this (barring the "I wasn't waging 'war against' the US" part), believe it or not. If he (90% prob the person would be male) is so disaffected by both the USA's government and society he would rather live in another country or join some other group, I'd certainly say he no longer has the heart and loyalty appropriate for a US citizen. I say _______ can have him. I'd still condemn him every bit as strongly for "flying a plane into the Sears Tower" on account of the nature of the act itself, but I'd still not call him a traitor as such (because he previously renounced his citizenship).

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe McCarthy View Post
    It's true that the Constitution doesn't explicitly forbid secession, but nor does it say that disloyal secessionists are exempt from treason charges if they wage war against the United States. The Confederates were actively waging war against the very existence of the United States by seceding and taking up arms against the United States. What is this if not treason against the United States?
    "Disloyal secessionsts" is a loaded term - implying there is no way you can be a secessionist without being disloyal. The latter term implies supporting activities intended to harm the "superior sovereign", so to speak, on its own home territory. I seriously doubt Scottish and Catalonian nationalists wish horrible events upon England and Castillian Spain, respectively. Therefore, it's questionable whether secessionists are necessarily disloyal to the jurisdictionally superior region.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe McCarthy View Post
    At best the secession is not treason argument is based on a very technical and pedantic use of wording. Essentially a legal loophole argument.
    Technicalities and loopholes, despite (often justified) bad reputations, CAN help redeem the truly innocent and punish the truly guilty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe McCarthy
    It certainly isn't in unison with the spirit of the treason clause though.
    My previous remarks address this.

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