Balkans

[morski]

Just found another sweet quote from this Evans bloke:

Сър, като човек, който е имал изключителни възможности да изследва македонския въпрос отвътре, позволих си може би да изтъкна някои от най-съществените условия на сегашното положение... Нека да започна с поправката на една почти всеобща заблуда. Там няма „македонци“. Там са българи. Там са румънци - останки от латиноговорещите жители на римо-илирийските провинции...

...Неприятно е задължението да кажеш на някои от своите приятели горчиви истини, но гръцката претенция към Македония... е присъница (бълнуване)...

...Това голямо надмощие на български елемент е един основен фактор в днешното положение, който е бил много скриван от статистики, съставени от гръцки източници. Обикновено много несъвършена представа се създава от чужденци и дори консули, чието запознаване с Македония се ограничава главно до градове като Солун или Битоля.[1]

Sir, as a man who had the exclusive privilege of studying the Macedonian question from the inside I have allowed myself to point out to some of the most essential circumstances of the present situation... Let me begin with the correction of one almost universal fallacy. There are no "Macedonians" there. There are Bulgarians. There are Romanians- relics of Latin-speaking inhabitants of the Roman Illyrian provinces...

... It is unplesant this obligation to tell to some of one's friends the bitter truth, but the Greek pretence to Macedonia... is a dream(a delirium)...

... This great superiority of the Bulgarian element is one of the major factors in todays situation which has been continuously hidden with statistics made up by Greek sources. Usually a very imperfect impression is created by foreigners and even diplomatic figures whose knowledge on Macedonia is limited mainly to some cities like Solun\Thessaloniki and Bitola\Monastir.

http://bg.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%90%...8A%D0%BD%D1%81

[Europa]

Sir, as a man who had the exclusive privilege of studying the Macedonian question from the inside I have allowed myself to point out to some of the most essential circumstances of the present situation... Let me begin with the correction of one almost universal fallacy. There are no "Macedonians" there. There are Bulgarians. There are Romanians- relics of Latin-speaking inhabitants of the Roman Illyrian provinces...

... It is unplesant this obligation to tell to some of one's friends the bitter truth, but the Greek pretence to Macedonia... is a dream(a delirium)...

... This great superiority of the Bulgarian element is one of the major factors in todays situation which has been continuously hidden with statistics made up by Greek sources. Usually a very imperfect impression is created by foreigners and even diplomatic figures whose knowledge on Macedonia is limited mainly to some cities like Solun\Thessaloniki and Bitola\Monastir.

The Macedonian case is very complicated,because of that mania of the Macedonians,everything and everybody to be Macedonian.Further more this dispute will never end if we even start talking about it.Greeks,Macedonians,Serbs an Bulgarians will fight the hell out of them to prove belonging

[hajduk]

Use the quoting system, it is annoying

[Europa]

Use the quoting system, it is annoying

I will,thank you! You should make a notice when you actually follow the rules as well,my friend.(I did not use the quoting system as well)

[Queen B]

Kottas wasn't the only Grecoman, they were in the tens of thousands at least. Even in my own family there were Grecomans as I have stated previously.

Now here is the translation I made for you(because I like you so much):

I still fail to see how this makes Northern Greek, Bulgarians in denial.
Even if there were tens of thousands Grecomans as you call it , Macedonia has almost 3 million, with 1.3 being refuges, and 200.000 being Muslims (Bulgarians, Turks and Roma).
I still fail to see how the so-called propaganda ''worked'' or happened only to Bulgarians and not to other nationalities/groups in Greece.


Also, I fail to see even the connection with Arvanites and Vlachs that live in Greece, and MIXED with Greeks and integrated in the Greek society for more than 500 years, to the Bulgarians of 1800-1900.

Last but not least, seems like noone also get into consideration the Neuilly treaty.

If Greeks are Bulgarians in denial, then we should start claiming that Ottomans were Greeks in denial, then every place that Ottomans conquered are Greeks in denial, etc , etc , etc....

[Europa]

Quote:..then every place that Ottomans conquered are Greeks..

The population not but lands....

[morski]

I still fail to see how this makes Northern Greek, Bulgarians in denial.
Even if there were tens of thousands Grecomans as you call it , Macedonia has almost 3 million, with 1.3 being refuges, and 200.000 being Muslims (Bulgarians, Turks and Roma).
I still fail to see how the so-called propaganda ''worked'' or happened only to Bulgarians and not to other nationalities/groups in Greece.


Also, I fail to see even the connection with Arvanites and Vlachs that live in Greece, and MIXED with Greeks and integrated in the Greek society for more than 500 years, to the Bulgarians of 1800-1900.

Last but not least, seems like noone also get into consideration the Neuilly treaty.

If Greeks are Bulgarians in denial, then we should start claiming that Ottomans were Greeks in denial, then every place that Ottomans conquered are Greeks in denial, etc , etc , etc....

Well if we don't count the Anatolian refugees and the Turks and Gypos the rest are pretty much the descendants of Hellenized Bulgarian-speaking, Vlach-speaking and Grecophone Romaioi(all belonging to the old Rum millet until the mid XIXc.) with the Bulgarians being the majority around the turn of the XXc. Of course they consider themselves to be Greek.

And after so much explanation if you still fail to see why some Bulgarian members here refer to Northern Greeks as Bulgarians in denial... well, not good.

Anyway. As I stated in previous posts of mine Northern Greeks and Southern Bulgarians certainly overlap and this is to a great part due to Macedonians and Thracians switching ethnicities up until fairly recently. After all we were all one folk during most of the Ottoman period- Eastern Orthodox Romans.

And if I may add a question: How do the fans of visiting sport teams insult the fans of Thessaloniki teams? What do they shout at them?

[Queen B]

Well if we don't count the Anatolian refugees and the Turks and Gypos the rest are pretty much the descendants of Hellenized Bulgarian-speaking, Vlach-speaking and Grecophone Romaioi(all belonging to the old Rum millet until the mid XIXc.) with the Bulgarians being the majority around the turn of the XXc. Of course they consider themselves to be Greek.

Now the 10 thousands Grecomans became millions.

I m loving it.

And after so much explanation if you still fail to see why some Bulgarian members here refer to Northern Greeks as Bulgarians in denial... well, not good.

Not good, true. Probably because the so much explanation is still nosensical.

[Europa]

Here some more..Thracians/Greeks and later Slavs/Bulgars unity was at the Balkans long time before the Turks

[Trun]

Northern Greeks definitely are not Bulgarians in denial. Almost one million Bulgarians lived in what is now Greek Macedonia and Thrace until 1922. About half of them were resettled in Bulgarian Thrace, Rhodope mountains and the Black sea coast. The other half remained in Greece, where they suffered atrocities from the Greek government for long years. They were so feared to identify as Bulgarians and spoke in Bulgarian only in their homes. This was until 1945. After that, Bulgarian communist government forgot about those Bulgarians in Greece and the Greek state calmed down and started to assimilate them in peaceful way - making them go in Greek schools, interethnical marriages, and so on. Today, the younger generations are not aware at all that they may have Bulgarian blood. They feel Greeks, speak in Greek and have Greek friends. With an exception of Bulgarians in Kastoria, Florina and Edessa regions, who still have Bulgarian identity, and Bulgarian immigrants since the dawn of democracy, nobody else identifies as Bulgarian in Greece. Then why are they Bulgarians in denial, because they have Bulgarian grandmother? According to this logic, a significant number of Bulgarians living on the Black sea coast are Greeks in denial because there were many Greeks living there in the past. But those people are Bulgarians and feel like one, it doesn't matter that they may have 12,5 or 4,75 percent of Greek blood.