"35%-55% Ashkenazis are of European Descent"

[Portukalos]

Of course not.

Gypsies are Indo-European speakers originally , while Finns or Magyars aren't Ironic.

[Albion]

Again, apologies for the brief reply to your wonderfully thoughtful post.

I have mentioned my Jewish heritage because I know that it is a significant point of contention to racially and ethnically minded people. If it came down to war, I stand with Europe now and forever.

The last part is great by the way, as a preservationist I naturally liked that last bit.
But what is your opinion about most Jews in Europe? Do they think like you or would they jump ship?
The Israelis don't seem to care who gets in their way though, I doubt they'd be willing to stand with Europe.

Well, the fact that the Irish and Turks share some haplogroups (dating back to ancient times) doesn't make them the same race. We can talk about haplogroups and genetic links all we want - at the end of the day, my eyes and common sense can judge who is European and who's not.

And Cypriots? What do your eyes tell you about them? All I have is TV and internet, I've never been to the place and never given it much attention.

Only if you LET them confuse you...

I need to put the issue to rest in my mind at least.

Not the first time I've seen you repeating this garbage.

Comrade, the Khazars were a Turko-Caucasian group, and looked probably something like modern Turkmen.

Fine, "the people who were occupied by the Khazar elite" then. Better? In that case they'd be North Caucasian peoples and perhaps a few relict nomads which would explain their closeness to Georgians.

are actually in favour of the Muslim take-over of Europe

Don't understand that one. Surely if anything we'd be used to wipe out Muslims such as the trouble with Iran.
Then again there's a few Jews who do advocate multiculturalism, you cannot help but wonder why.

I would like to point out that Europe is somewhat subjective, and it was only recently British began to think of themselves as European.

Only because we like being alternative and pissing off the continentals.

do yo guys consider Gypsies as European? I bet no. But I think it has a history behind. I could get in mind several peoples in Europe who do not fall some criteras like Magyars (Hungarians) who speak a language of foreign origin.

Unlike Jews and Hungarians, there is little to debate about Roma. They're North Indians who kept to themselves, end of story.

[Sikeliot]

Some are going to call me out on this, but it's unfair to say Jews (Sephardis and Ashkenazis) are not European but to include Sicilians, Maltese, and Cypriots if genetics are the argument for why Jews aren't European. Dodecad Oracle places Sicilians/South Italians as closer genetically to Sephardis than to Greeks. Jews came from Israel into Europe a fully Semitic people, picking up European genes as they went along. Sicilians and Maltese likely started out Paleolithic European but then received Phoenician, Carthaginian, Moorish, even Assyrian (I think a user on here said this) influences to the point that today they cluster with the Jews side by side.

As for culture, compare the folk dances, music, etc of some Balkan nations to nearby West Asian ones and you'll begin to see connections. So if using culture as to why Jews are not European, consider this too!

[GeistFaust]

do yo guys consider Gypsies as European?

Apply the logic that I used for Jews in the last post, and you get basically a similar answer. The only difference is Gypsies have made even less of an effort to integrate in a cultural manner with Europeans.


They have made far less contributions and advancements that I would find it much more repulsive to consider them any more European than Jews who have partial European ancestry.

I would say that that after Jews and Asians the amount of European identity that exists in a person is negated in proportion to the degree of genetic, linguistic, and cultural aspects which they might possess.

A "European" with 1/8th black can not be considered European regardless of how strong their linguistic or cultural connection is. This might sound like a subjective definition which is based off of "prejudice" and "bias", but it is based off of hard core fact.


At least some Jews have been in Europe for a longer period of time, they have made more contributions than Blacks, Gypsies, and other peoples. The same could be said about Asians to a certain extent, but they have no traditional presence in Europe, and have remained largely isolated from Europe.

Therefore a person with 1/8th Jewish, like Horst Mahler, would be the only person I would consider truly Europe, because other peoples are either inferior or have never had a presence in European culture for an extended period of time.

[Albion]

Gypsies are Indo-European speakers originally , while Finns or Magyars aren't Ironic.

Indo-European is just a language family. IE includes Iranian and Indian peoples, Finno-Ugric includes the Siberian peoples. Both language families are used by Europeans and non-Europeans alike.

The fact that Gypsies use an IE language is trivial, so do Negroids in the Congo but we don;t call them European.

Hungarians are and Finnic peoples are European for a number of reasons, it isn;t based on languages alone. Hungarian origins lie with the Slavs who preceded them in Pannonia anyway, the steppe origin was of a small elite.

[Portukalos]

A "European" with 1/8th black can not be considered European regardless of how strong their linguistic or cultural connection is. This might sound like a subjective definition which is based off of "prejudice" and "bias", but it is based off of hard core fact.

Really, I don't know if I agree. If that guy who is 1/8 Black is not European , then what is he...

Therefore a person with 1/8th Jewish, like Horst Mahler, would be the only person I would consider truly Europe, because other peoples are either inferior or have never had a presence in European culture for an extended period of time.

Seriously, You'd only consider someone with less than 1/8 Jewish ancestry as European? That is very weird. I don't follow this logic GeistFraust , or perhaps you are confusing yourself as well.

[Beorn]

The last part is great by the way, as a prservationist I naturally liked that last bit.

What are you preserving then? Shall we let gung-ho Africans into the fray?

Some are going to call me out on this, but it's unfair to say Jews (Sephardis and Ashkenazis) are not European but to include Sicilians, Maltese, and Cypriots if genetics are the argument for why Jews aren't European.

I don't think I've said any of the sort, but others may wish to put their tuppence worth in.

In fairness, the difference is a cultural similarity and religious ideal.

[Thunor]

To be honest, my knowledge about Cypriots is limited.

Mine as well. The opinions of Greek forum members on the Cypriots seemed very varied.

You mean like him:

That is one grotesque half-Arab brownskin. The majority of Italians are obviously not as swarthy as him, although I've seen several racially dubious Sicilians in my days. A result of African genetic drift, no doubt.

This ties in with my earlier question - how mixed do you have to be, to get considered a non-European? I guess it varies from person to person.

Any native European is automatically part of European diversity, regardless of how he "swarthy" he is.

That guy on the picture is clearly not a part of European diversity. It doesn't matter if the negroid blood came from his parents, or from several centuries ago.

[PetiteParisienne]

The last part is great by the way, as a prservationist I naturally liked that last bit.
But what is your opinion about most Jews in Europe? Do they think like you or would they jump ship?
The Israelis don't seem to care who gets in their way though, I doubt they'd be willing to stand with Europe.



Don't understand that one. Surely if anything we'd be used to wipe out Muslims such as the trouble with Iran.
Then again there's a few Jews who do advocate multiculturalism, you cannot help but wonder why.

To answer your first questions: it really depends on the individual. There is so much grey area, it's ridiculous. Many European Jews think like me, many are clueless, and some (mainly the super religious) are distrusting of everyone aside from others like them (e.i. other super religious Jews). Generally, those who are not religious and don't identify as European move to Israel. That tends to be the catalyst.

Israelis love Europe. Israeli culture is quite Westernised, as it was founded by European Jews. Having been to Israel before, I can say confidently that Israel would stand by Europe in a heartbeat against Islam.

Liberal Jews, be they religious or not, tend to support multiculturalism. But I tend to find that all liberals support multiculturalism. I personally have not met one single Jewish person who supports Muslim immigration to Europe.

[Ausência Forçada]

Indo-European is just a language family. IE includes Iranian and Indian peoples, Finno-Ugric includes the Siberian peoples. Both language families are used by Europeans and non-Europeans alike.

The fact that Gypsies use an IE language is trivial, so do Negroids in the Congo but we don;t call them European.

Hungarians are and Finnic peoples are European for a number of reasons, it isn;t based on languages alone. Hungarian origins lie with the Slavs who preceded them in Pannonia anyway, the steppe origin was of a small elite.

Agree 100%.