Soak the English: Welsh want paying for any water piped across the border

[Treffie]

Politicians say rain-rich country must be compensated if 'increasingly valuable resource' is sent to drought-hit England

Wales should make sure it receives proper payment for any water exported to ease drought-hit areas of England, Welsh politicians and economists have said.

Elfyn Llwyd, the leader of Plaid Cymru at Westminster, led calls for a "mature debate" on ensuring Wales is properly paid for one of its richest natural resources.

He said he did not object to water being moved from Wales to England. "I see no reason why that should not happen as we are rich in that resource in Wales."

But he added: "I think there should be adequate and reasonable recompense for that provision. I'm not talking of an Opec situation when come sudden droughts to England we get the guns out and say you've got to pay twice or three times more. Just a reasonable return on what is being delivered.

"The time is high for a mature, friendly discussion between the governments of Wales and Westminster. Those detractors who say it should be provided free are more than likely the same people who say that Scottish oil belongs to England as well. Water is a commodity like everything else. Let's have a friendly agreement. We have it, you need it."

Llwyd's comments come at a time when the worst drought to grip the UK in more than 30 years is already threatening wildlife and farmers' livelihoods.

Widespread hosepipe bans are likely even before spring has begun. Stretches of south-east England have been declared officially in drought and other areas are considered at risk.

At the launch of the government's Water for Life white paper in December the environment secretary, Caroline Spelman, said Britain faced a future of water shortages and lasting environmental damage, with some rivers running dry, unless attitudes to water use change. One idea that continues to be discussed is piping more water from Wales into England.

Dylan Jones-Evans, director of enterprise at the University of Wales, said water had been an "emotive" issue in Wales since Llyn Celyn reservoir was created in the 1960s by the flooding of a village and farmland to supply parts of the north-west of England. Much of Liverpool's water comes from north Wales.

Jones-Evans said: "Wales has got the water. The issue now is who owns that resource and whether Wales is getting a fair price for it as if it was selling any other commodity, product or service.

"It's not as if Wales will stop the water flowing to England in the same way the Russians have tried to turn the tap off on gas. We've got a resource, we want to have a fair price for that resource. With devolution going the way it is, Wales would probably want to have more control over that."

The issue was discussed at the Welsh assembly last week. Nick Ramsay, the Tory shadow business minister in the assembly, said it was "refreshing" that Wales had an "increasingly valuable resource".

He said: "It is the responsibility of all of us to ensure that this is not squandered, but turned to Wales's best advantage. Not to do so would be negligent."

He quoted figures from Welsh Water (Dwr Cymru) that the country's reservoirs are 98% full, adding: "I believe that we are witnessing the renaissance of a resource, and it falls on all of us here and the Welsh government to do what we can to ensure that we really do capitalise on the most important resource of all."

During the same debate, John Griffiths, the Welsh government's environment minister, said: "Our view is that in Wales we have a very important resource in our water, and that it must be recognised as such. In any future negotiations or developments, we would obviously want to get full value for that very important water resource."

Welsh Water said that though the country had a higher rainfall than many parts of the UK, it did not have "excess water resources", especially during hot summers. If more water was to be moved to England, "major investment in new storage" in Wales would be needed.

Its spokesman said: "Integrated management of water resources across England and Wales is currently the subject of much discussion. If a realistic proposal for a water transfer scheme in Wales was put forward, Welsh Water would be best placed to take the lead in its consideration."

The Western Mail, Wales's national newspaper, backed Llwyd's stance on Wednesday. In an editorial it wrote: "A new era of co-operation between Wales and England in which water supplies are developed and shared would demonstrate that a transformation had taken place in the way the different nations of the UK can work together … England has the chance to be both a good neighbour and a good customer. This is an idea which should not be turned off."

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[a device]

They want to charge us for the water, when they recieve FREE prescriptions on the NHS.

The reality is - Wales was bound to England as a poxy little principality many centuries ago, thanks to Henry VII (half-Welsh himself).

Wales is not Scotland, even though Plaid Cymru would love to have that importance.

Personally, I would love to have the ball and chains which is Scotland and Wales, removed from my own English tax burden.

Rock on, you naive, pompous little islanders. up

[Graham]

That's it! we'll pish into your water, if it's going free.

[Graham]

Seriously though. How much will water go for on Ebay this summer? Got more than enough to sell, if anyone want's some.

[Occident]

It would help alot if we had a system of genuine federalism, where each constituent clearly and undoubetdly managed and paid for its own welfare system. These issues will only continue to cause resentment otherwise, which in fact may well be Plaid Cymru's aim here.

[Treffie]

They want to charge us for the water, when they recieve FREE prescriptions on the NHS.

What's that got to do with anything? Who decides that the Welsh get free prescriptions? Not the English. All money that is allocated to Wales is then distributed to the devolved areas such as health etc. It all comes out of Wales' budget, not the English one, so if we subsidise in one area, it means less to spend in another.

Things are different now, we have devolved powers and our water authorities are not in the hands of the state. England shouldn't expect to get this precious commodity for nothing - if they siphoned water from elsewhere outside the UK, they'd have to pay for it.

[Wulfhere]

Perhaps in response English taxpayers might feel disinclined to continue subsidising Wales under the Barnett formula and other similar disproportionate payments relating to Welsh unemployment benefits, pensions, NHS treatments etc.

[Treffie]

NHS treatments etc.

Funny. A system devised by a Welshman not provided to the Welsh. Nice

[Wulfhere]

Funny. A system devised by a Welshman not provided to the Welsh. Nice

Who cares who devised it? The English are paying for it.

[Occident]

Funny. A system devised by a Welshman not provided to the Welsh. Nice

Probably the worse Welsh political figure of the 20th century.