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Thread: Putin Reelected

  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe McCarthy View Post
    The only thing I remember on this issue is once where you accused me of being anti-Russian and I said something to the effect that I might could be said to be anti-Russian in a political sense, but in saying that I was referring to Putin, and I noted then that my view is complicated as I favor a US-Russia alliance. In fact, one reason I dislike Putin is that he is obstructing that alliance.
    You have made several posts and threads about Russia and Russians, not Putin. I don't have the time to dig them out now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    You have made several posts and threads about Russia and Russians, not Putin. I don't have the time to dig them out now.
    I've opened a number of threads about Russia, particularly the Soviet Union, the latter being something that almost no one, including most Russians, likes.

    Beyond that, I'm honestly stumped.

    I'll look forward to seeing these posts and threads though if and when you get the time.

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe McCarthy View Post
    I've opened a number of threads about Russia, particularly the Soviet Union, the latter being something that almost no one, including most Russians, likes.

    Beyond that, I'm honestly stumped.

    I'll look forward to seeing these posts and threads though if and when you get the time.
    I think all of us here have seen those posts, Joe. But just running this site takes up all my time, I don't have more to indulge in seeking out your posts.
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  4. #204
    Senior Member Humanophage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Your genetic results are irrelevant. Of course you are a Russian - but an unpatriotic Russian who is bedfellows with Russia's sworn enemies.
    Enemies of Putin's course aren't necessarily Russia's enemies, and vice versa (say, China or Central Asia).

    So if Prokhorov scores well, it must be zero election fraud.
    Well, the only party and candidate currently running for office with a history for electoral fraud are United Russia and its leader. I'm sure you remember the graphs and I don't have to repost them. Do I have any reason to suspect Prokhorov of massive fraud, anything along the lines of 95% votes in psychiatric wards? Nope, haven't found anything like that. If you find any or have any theories, do post them.

    No it does not.
    Please explain why did a party with a much lower approval rate score the same as Putin, if it didn't involve greater fraud.

    By the way Chechnya and Dagestan only make up a small percentage of the total Russian electorate. Take them out completely and it wouldn't change the result for Putin much.
    There are plenty more ethnic republics, and they all have the same pattern. All Caucasian states, Mordovia with its dictator since 1995, Tuva with its highest murder rate, etc. The worst, most lawless areas in the country where massive fraud is very easy to implement.

    Each such republic has 4 times its population for the purposes of electing Putin or United Russia. Firstly, their "turnout" is double the normal Russian turnout. Secondly, their "votes" for the ruling party are double the normal Russian level.

    Here are the numbers for United Russia, will have a look at Putin later on:
    Last edited by Humanophage; 03-07-2012 at 01:11 AM.
    Single Population Sharing (Eurogenes)
    1 Estonian_Polish 4.36
    2 Russian_Smolensk 4.88
    3 Southwest_Russian 5.32
    4 Belorussian 5.78
    5 Lithuanian 5.92

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    I think all of us here have seen those posts, Joe. But just running this site takes up all my time, I don't have more to indulge in seeking out your posts.
    Well, in any event, I think it's fair to say that my criticism of Russia is of a moderate tone, especially as I don't even think NATO should have been moved beyond Germany. There are some really rabid Russophobes on this forum, who will go nameless, and they have expressed a desire (how serious is debatable) to see Russia seriously harmed or weakened. I'm not in that mold, and though I know you are suspicious of Americans when it comes to Russia, there's no particular reason to see me as especially anti-Russian, even in the worst analysis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    Some cultures just aren't ready for true democracy.
    True democracy can only operate with direct participation at a tribal thing. It is difficult to work on a larger scale. Perhaps technology is making it more a possibility nowadays, but we'll never see the ruling classes concede us any such power in our lifetimes.

    You appear to view contemporary parliamentary 'democracy' as close to this 'true' ideal, however. In that case, the only culture that could EVER be ready for that, is one composed solely of cynical confidence tricksters and mafiosi.
    In fact too much democracy can become just as bad as a dictatorship at times.
    Far worse. Every dictator dies some day. His policies can then be reversed and the adverse effects countered. The Demos is immortal, however.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe McCarthy View Post
    I've opened a number of threads about Russia, particularly the Soviet Union, the latter being something that almost no one, including most Russians, likes.
    Um...

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humanophage View Post
    Enemies of Putin's course aren't necessarily Russia's enemies, and vice versa (say, China or Central Asia).
    You know what I mean, and talking bollocks then try to run around it.

    You don't want what is in the best interest of Russia. You are only interested in unrest creation, revolution, weakening Russia, etc etc. That is what I get out of it.


    Disagree about what exactly? Putin and United Russia scored the same in Moscow, which I am saying is quite absurd and which points out the much greater degree of fraud on United Russia's behalf - in Moscow, at least.
    How is that exactly statistically impossible? It does not necessarily imply fraud, only to those whose interests are to create a stir and unrest in Russia.

    Now go and enjoy your anti-Putin rallies in Moscow. I hope they crack down hard on you, as much as you deserve.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humanophage View Post
    Do I have any reason to suspect Prokhorov of massive fraud, anything along the lines of 95% votes in psychiatric wards? Nope.
    The Holy Fool is a phenomenon known in many parts of the world, but one especially embraced in Orthodox Russia. In his delirium, he is seen as enjoying a certain degree of prophecy and direct communion with Higher Powers. As such, why shouldn't the inhabitants of the looney bin support their rightful Tsar!? Railing against this is frankly anti-Russian!

    * * *
    Statistics... Tiresome nonsense. It's just a shame that the Kreml still feel the need to perpetuate the charade. Russia is not Luxemburg or Slovenia, it's a great empire, and requires strong rule. Nobody in Russia is in as good a position to provide this as the KGB men like Putin. Leaving the political succession up to the whims of 'democracy' would be deeply unwise. Look at the shit it's got US in! Rome was at its greatest when continuity was preserved by the careful adoption and grooming of successors by the ruling Emperor. Why deny the Third Rome this?

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    Originally Posted by Osweo
    but we'll never see the ruling classes concede us any such power in our lifetimes.
    You might look into Robert Michel's 'iron law of oligarchy'. There will always be 'ruling classes'. In Western democracies they are at least constrained to some extent by the law, unlike in commie utopias, which neither abolish ruling classes, or provide more liberty.

    Far worse. Every dictator dies some day. His policies can then be reversed and the adverse effects countered. The Demos is immortal, however.
    You speak of evil dictators as if their effects are easily reversed. Ask yourself how well we've reversed the effects of Hitlerism and Stalinism. Their policies have had very permanent effects, including on Western democracies, that probably wouldn't have occurred otherwise.

    Um...
    Yes, you prefer to side with history's losers. They lost for a reason too:



    Here we see the heroes of the Glorious Socialist Workers' state greeted with Nazi salute as they roll into crush the Czechs in Prague.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Osweo View Post
    I lived in Russia for seven years. To those who've never heard of a Putin supporter, I can simply state that both my two ex-girlfriends there support Putin. One of my brightest students (a young woman who's just had a baby) supports him too. These are all strong patriots, upholding Russia's distinctness and resisting westernisation. A lot of my other acquaintances are realistic about him, even if they aren't exactly his 'fans', as they accept that there is no alternative.
    I am not a Putin’s fan and I have to agree. It would be ideal if Putin was counterbalanced by mature political opposition. Alas, we don’t have one.

    Btw, note that Putin was polling below 50% in December. I wouldn’t be surprised if it turns out that it was precisely the clownish behavior of opposition that actually mobilized some people and gave Putin victory in the first round.

    What bothers me more at this point is Putin’s age. Will he be able to embrace innovation and diversify the economy? Or will he stick to a more familiar to him modus operandi of dinosaurs thus becoming a serious obstacle to growth? And here is my real fear: Russia is prone to falling into rather embarrassing displays of cults of personality, as I am sure you know. It is not that difficult to imagine Putin becoming another Brezhnev.

    Which is why I hope he serves his country well but he serves it for six years only.

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