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Thread: Jews Worried By Vatican Gesture To Traditionalists

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    Default Jews Worried By Vatican Gesture To Traditionalists

    VATICAN CITY — Some Jewish groups voiced concern Friday that the Vatican might be calling into question more than 40 years of progress in Catholic-Jewish relations by reaching out to a group of breakaway traditionalist Catholics that includes a Holocaust-denying bishop.

    The Vatican has been working for years to bring the breakaway Society of St. Pius X back into its fold, and this week told its members they must accept some core church teachings if they want to be fully reintegrated into the church. But the Holy See said some expressions contained in documents from the Second Vatican Council could be left open for "legitimate discussion."

    The 1962-65 Vatican II meetings brought modernizing reforms to the Catholic Church, including outreach to Jews and introduction of the Mass in the vernacular rather than Latin. The Swiss-based Society of St. Pius X was formed in 1969, opposed to many of Vatican II's reforms.

    The Vatican refused to say which core teachings the society must accept to be reintegrated, and which elements of Vatican II documents could be left open for discussion.

    A key Vatican II document, Nostra Aetate, revolutionized the Catholic Church's relations with Jews by declaring that Christ's death couldn't be attributed to Jews as a whole. Other Vatican II teachings to which the society objects concern religious freedom and ecumenical relations.

    The uncertainty over what is being required of the society provoked unease among some Jewish groups, which issued veiled warnings Friday about the possible impact on Vatican-Jewish relations were Nostra Aetate and other Vatican II teachings to be now considered ripe for discussion.

    Abraham Foxman, the Anti-Defamation League's U.S. director, said he was confident that Pope Benedict XVI would require the society to accept the church's "positive teachings" about Jews before being fully reconciled with the church.

    "It would be unthinkable for the Vatican to allow a Catholic breakaway sect that includes a Holocaust-denying bishop, Richard Williamson, to be reintegrated into the church while still being allowed to promote anti-Semitism and anti-Judaism," he said in a statement.

    Elan Steinberg of the American Gathering of Holocaust Survivors and their Descendants, said there would be "catastrophic effects" on Catholic-Jewish relations if the Vatican didn't require the society to accept the document.

    "We mustn't allow the moral imperative of Catholic-Jewish amity to fall victim to a policy of appeasement or blithe expediency," he said in a statement.

    Even Rabbi David Rosen, who heads the American Jewish Committee's interreligious affairs office and is a veteran of Catholic-Jewish dialogue, said he was worried about the Vatican's gesture and awaited further clarification.

    "If 'Nostra Aetate' and 'Lumen Gentium' (another Vatican II document) are not considered fundamental doctrines of the Church, and it is possible to question them without challenging the authority of the church, then we (and not just Jewish-Catholic relations) are in for a very rough ride ahead," he said in an email.

    The society's superior, Bishop Bernard Fellay, has said he would study the two-page document of core church teachings handed over to him by the Vatican and respond.

    The German-born Benedict has worked for two decades, as pope and as cardinal, to bring the group back into the Vatican's fold, eager to prevent further schism and the expansion of a parallel church.

    Benedict, who has won praise from Jews for his decades of outreach, nevertheless provoked outrage in 2009 when he lifted the excommunication of Williamson, who denied gas chambers were used during the Holocaust. Williamson, Fellay and three other bishops were excommunicated in 1988 after the society's founder consecrated them without papal consent.

    The society has six seminaries, three universities and 70 primary and secondary schools around the globe. Aside from the four bishops, it boasts more than 550 priests and 200 seminarians.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_966925.html
    "The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants." - Albert Camus


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    When has the Vatican made such blatant demands on Jewish religious leaders? What arrogance.
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    The "Holocau$t" is the greatest cash cow in human history. So you can bet that anytime anyone makes even the remotest gesture to any person or group in any way critical of the "Big Lie", you'll hear the "oy vey" all the way from Tel Aviv.

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    One could well say that I am 1/8th "Jew."

    My direct paternal grandfather (Lewis Robinson [nee Ludovicius Rabinovicius] was German Jew [aka Ashkenazi], Latvian, Belorussian and Cossack from my info) and was Orthodox in practice.

    My direct paternal great grandmother was Canadian of (mostly) French, Mohawk and Irish descent, born into a Roman Catholic family...she converted (properly I am informed) to wed him.

    Their son Harold converted to "Irish-American" Roman Catholicism to wed the woman he loved... My dad wed a woman of the Italian-American sect of Roman Catholicism... I wed an agnostic-deist-Greek Orthodox absolute babe with a BRAIN.

    All of which has little to do with the point of this thread.

    Personally, I am offended by the Holocaust verbiage.

    A Holocaust is properly a free-will sacrifice of large magnitude.

    What the 3rd Reich government had folks do to others was murder, not a true Holocaust...of many folks outside the German "Ideal."
    Last edited by Piparskeggr; 09-19-2011 at 11:31 PM.
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    All I can think of is Isaac the Jew of York from Ivanhoe.

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    As far as I'm aware, Bishop Richard Williamson hasn't denied any Catholic dogma, I remember calls for him and the Pope to step down over his remarks; I'm not even a Roman Catholic (though an admirer of Pope Benedict XVI) but the Vatican has no obligation to accommodate the demands of other religious (or otherwise) groups.

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    Default FSSPX and the One-Sided Relation of the Vatican with the Jews

    The discussions between the Pius X-Brotherhood (FSSPX) and the Vatican are drawing to an end and never has FSSPX been so close to a full reunion. The possible reconciliation between the Vatican and FSSPX is making the Jews very nervous.

    The relationship between FSSPX and the Jews was already hostile before the Williamson affair in 2009. In 2006 FSSPX was accused of anti-Semitism in a report on Traditional Catholicism by the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) (see also here). The allegations include Holocaust-denial, spreading of conspiracy theories about Jewish domination and negative stereotyping of jews. The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) has branded FSSPX as being “mired in antisemitism.” FSSPX is negative about the French revolution and its republican ideals and is positively inclined towards the Vichy Regime (1940–1944), which was strongly Catholic and imposed anti-Jewish policies in France. FSSPX officially has no political affiliations, but there are strong links with leading members of the National Front, like Marine Le Pen.

    http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net...with-the-jews/
    "The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants." - Albert Camus


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    That ratzinger's a bit of a dark horse.

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    It's worth remembering that the ADL and the SPLC exist for one and only one purpose, to make money off gullible and guilt-ridden Whites.

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