Is Latin America part of "The West"?

[Gigolo]

Well, race is only one factor among many.

True. I wouldnt call non-white americans as non-western, thats where the other factors come into play. But western civilization was founded by the white man. However latin american culture is derrived from western europeans and even their heritage can be traced partially to western europe.

[The Lawspeaker]

Your anti-Americanism is making you completely incoherent, Civis. If there is not a "West," i.e., Western Civilization, then you most certainly cannot speak of any kind of common European mentality. You devolve all of Europe into slightly more technologically advanced versions of the abject tribalism common in most of Asia & Africa. If that's what you prefer, so be it.

No. That's called ethnic nationalism. Around the concept of a nation-state.

Spanish are no Dutch even though they have a white skin. The languages are different, the cultures are different, they have a different religion and a different way of viewing religion etc. A completely different nation from my own. I don't think that Spain and the Netherlands have much in common even though we are "white", "western" and "European".

[Odoacer]

No. That's called ethnic nationalism. Around the concept of a nation-state.

Spanish are no Dutch even though they have a white skin. The languages are different, the cultures are different etc. A completely different nation from my own.

And that's fine. But then they aren't "Europeans," either. They are just the Dutch and the Spanish. And there are Germans, Chinese, Zambians, Malagasy, Chileans, Americans, Tajiks, etc.

This is where your logic goes. Europe is meaningful as a geographical designation only; & even then, when we consider that it is part of a far greater Eurasian landmass, it is designation without much meaning.

As I said, if that's what you prefer, so be it. But do not pretend that "Europe" has some kind of magical commonality that excludes the colonies.

[The Lawspeaker]

And that's fine. But then they aren't "Europeans," either. They are just the Dutch and the Spanish. And there are Germans, Chinese, Zambians, Malagasy, Chileans, Americans, Tajiks, etc.

This is where your logic goes. Europe is meaningful as a geographical designation only; & even then, when we consider that it is part of a far greater Eurasian landmass, it is designation without much meaning.

As I said, if that's what you prefer, so be it. But do not pretend that "Europe" has some kind of magical commonality that excludes the colonies.

I think we would still have more in common with each other then with America and for that you'd need to look at politics (just look at the differences between American political ideologies and the ones used here), you would need to look at laws (think about the ius sanguinis vs ius soli debate), you would need to look at the way languages here are interwoven and how cultures gradually chance from one into the other.

Yes there are nation-states but it is still very different from the U.S.

[Odoacer]

I think we would still have more in common with each other then with America and for that you'd need to look at politics (just look at the differences between American political ideologies and the ones used here), you would need to look at laws (think about the ius sanguinis vs ius soli debate), you would need to look at the way languages here are interwoven and how cultures gradually chance from one into the other.

All of the same kinds of considerations come into play when asking what is "the West." You can't have your cake & eat it, too.

[The Lawspeaker]

All of the same kinds of considerations come into play when asking what is "the West." You can't have your cake & eat it, too.

Give me 10 examples of what America and European countries have in common. I'll make your life even more difficult:

Name 10 things that Americans and Dutch have in common when it comes to culture (no I don't mean American films but I am pointing at traditions), language (no not the Americanised slang that has been creeping in), laws, political system etc.

[Odoacer]

Give me 10 examples of what America and European countries have in common.

1) White race.
2) Christian religion.
3) Indo-European languages.
4) Political & legal systems derived from Greek & Roman models.
5) Art & architecture.
6) Capitalistic economies (gasp!).
7) The principle of individual rights.
8) High levels of development & high standards of living.
9) Basic structure of our educational systems.

... and ...

10) Driving on the right side of the road. (Sorry, Great Britain!)

[The Lawspeaker]

1) White race.
2) Christian religion.
3) Indo-European languages.
4) Political & legal systems derived from Greek & Roman models.
5) Art & architecture.
6) Capitalistic economies (gasp!).
7) The principle of individual rights.
8) High levels of development & high standards of living.
9) Basic structure of our education systems.

... and ...

10) Driving on the right side of the road. (Sorry, Great Britain!)

3. Not true. Take f.i the Bask Country. And you wouldn't understand most of the Indo-European languages.
4. Not completely the case. Take for instance Scandinavia: it has a large dose of earlier Germanic ideas.
5. It shows that you have never seen cities in Europe.. or even villages.
6. Not really. There are several economic systems in Europe which are not like the Anglo-Saxon model in the U.S and U.K. Our system is completely different is a form of social coporatism rather then capitalism.
8. Not everywhere. And also here the social systems in use differ from the United States.
9. Not true.

[The Lawspeaker]

Differences between America and European countries for the dummies:

Top 10 differences.

More differences.

[Odoacer]

I'll make your life even more difficult:

Name 10 things that Americans and Dutch have in common when it comes to culture (no I don't mean American films but I am pointing at traditions), language (no not the Americanised slang that has been creeping in), laws, political system etc.

1) Influence of Calvinism.
2) Capitalism.
3) Ingvaeonic languages.
4) Cultural value of thriftiness & industriousness.
5) Overlapping pheno- & genotypes.
6) Common use of dairy products in everyday cuisine.
7) Historical antagonism with the Spanish.
8) Historical antagonism with the Germans.
9) Religious toleration.
10) Republicanism (certainly there was a history of this in the Netherlands, though today it is a constitutional monarchy).

3. Not true. Take f.i the Bask Country.
4. Not completely the case. Take for instance Scandinavia: it has a large dose of earlier Germanic ideas.
5. It shows that you have never seen cities in Europe.. or even villages.
6. Not really. There are several economic systems in Europe which are not like the Anglo-Saxon model in the U.S and U.K. Our system is completely different is a form of social coporatism rather then capitalism.
8. Not everywhere. And also here the social systems in use differ from the United States.
9. Not true.

3. So what? No one else in Europe speaks a language related to Basque. Do you?
4. Of course much of American law is from English common law, which is Germanic in origin.
5. And you've never been to cities in America, or even villages. (I have been to ONE city in Europe.) Obviously there is a common architectural language, but ours was largely mediated through the influence of Britain.
6. Most of Europe has a capitalistic economy. I don't deny all differences in how it is implemented, & certainly the U.S. system is more similar to Britain's.
8. Of course, it's not true everywhere in the U.S., either. So? The general point is still true: the U.S., like most of Europe, is highly developed with a high standard of living, in contrast to most of the rest of the world.
9. You don't have compulsory universal primary & secondary education in most of Europe, with tertiary education (university) available for those who wish to pursue it?

Again, I'm not somehow denying all differences. I'm pointing out where commonalities exist, as you asked.