Is Latin America part of "The West"?

[The Lawspeaker]

1) Influence of Calvinism.
2) Capitalism.
3) Ingvaeonic languages.
4) Cultural value of thriftiness & industriousness.
5) Overlapping pheno- & genotypes.
6) Common use of dairy products in everyday cuisine.
7) Historical antagonism with the Spanish.
8) Historical antagonism with the Germans.
9) Religious toleration.
10) Republicanism (certainly there was a history of this in the Netherlands, though today it is a constitutional monarchy).

1. More visible here then over there. "Don't show off". Is very calvinist btw.
2. We don't have American-style capitalism in this country.. yet.
3. But you wouldn't be able to understand 99.9 percent of what was being said to you if it was said in Dutch.
4. Americans are not particularly thrifty - nor have they ever been thrifty. A thing that a lot of Dutch have lost too over the last 10 years.
5. I can spot the difference between an American and a Dutchman from a couple of miles off.
6. I wonder in what way it is being used in the U.S.
7. With good reason.
8.Dito
9. I am under the impression that American toleration is not particularly existent given the nature of American Christian fundamentalism.
10. Correct on both counts.

3. So what? No one else in Europe speaks a language related to Basque. Do you?
4. Of course much of American law is from English common law, which is Germanic in origin.
5. And you've never been to cities in America, or even villages. (I have been to ONE city in Europe.) Obviously there is a common architectural language, but ours was largely mediated through the influence of Britain.
6. Most of Europe has a capitalistic economy. I don't deny all differences in how it is implemented, & certainly the U.S. system is more similar to Britain's.
8. Of course, it's not true everywhere in the U.S., either. So? The general point is still true: the U.S., like most of Europe, is highly developed with a high standard of living, in contrast to most of the rest of the world.
9. You don't have compulsory universal primary & secondary education in most of Europe, with tertiary education (university) available for those who wish to pursue it?

Again, I'm not somehow denying all differences. I'm pointing out where commonalities exist, as you asked.

3. No.. but show you that not everything is the same in Europe.
4. I think that when you would compare the legal systems you would numerous differences. In France, for instance, one is guilty until proven innocent. The political systems also work differently.
5. Using Google Maps I can check out American towns from behind my desk. I don't see anything in the American spatial planning that looks even a bit like how we do things here.
6. Capitalism in Europe works very differently. For more information: check Rhineland Model, Social models and in the case of the Netherlands the Polder Model. Be sure to check out how European healthcare systems are ran.
9. But the way in which the system works differs from country to country. For instance Norway vs the Netherlands vs France. The Anglo-Saxon (American) Bachelor and Master model is very new and is only just making it's appearance in the European education system.

[Odoacer]

1. More visible here then over there. "Don't show off". Is very calvinist btw.
2. We don't have American-style capitalism in this country.. yet.
3. But you wouldn't be able to understand 99.9 percent of what was being said to you if it was said in Dutch.
4. Americans are not particularly thrifty - nor have they ever been thrifty. A thing that a lot of Dutch have lost too over the last 10 years.
5. I can spot the difference between an American and a Dutchman from a couple of miles off.
6. I wonder in what way it is being used in the U.S.
7. With good reason.
8.Dito
9. I am under the impression that American toleration is not particularly existent given the nature of American Christian fundamentalism.
10. Correct on both counts.

1. In terms of explicit religious practice, yes, perhaps more visible in the Netherlands. But there is a Calvinist legacy from the Puritans that continues to influence American culture today.
2. The Netherlands has a special place in the history of the development of capitalism. This can hardly be denied.
3. I didn't say I could understand Dutch. I'm not sure why you think that's particularly relevant. Dutch is nevertheless one of the languages most closely related to English.
4. There have been plenty of changes in American culture, but my grandparents' generation was quite thrifty. This is due in no small part to the Great Depression, but valuing thriftiness has long been a part of American culture.
5. I said there's overlap, not that Americans are carbon-copies of Dutchmen.
6. Milk, butter, & cheese are all commonly consumed on their own, & used in cooking. We don't often use as many varieties of cheese, I'm sure. There are some other commonalities in traditional American cuisine, but not many.
9. In almost every town you will find at least one Protestant & one Catholic church. In larger towns you'll find several Protestant churches of different denominations, in addition to a few Catholic churches, & occasionally a synagogue or an Orthodox church of some kind. In bigger cities there's usually a mosque or two, sometimes a Buddhist or Hindu temple, & buildings for other religious groups. We have religious toleration almost to an extreme in the U.S., & even most fundamentalists support religious toleration as a legal principle.

3. No.. but show you that not everything is the same in Europe.
4. I think that when you would compare the legal systems you would numerous differences. In France, for instance, one is guilty until proven innocent. The political systems also work differently.
5. Using Google Maps I can check out American towns from behind my desk. I don't see anything in the American spatial planning that looks even a bit like how we do things here.
6. Capitalism in Europe works very differently. For more information: check Rhineland Model, Social models and in the case of the Netherlands the Polder Model. Be sure to check out how European healthcare systems are ran.
9. But the way in which the system works differs from country to country. For instance Norway vs the Netherlands vs France. The Anglo-Saxon (American) Bachelor and Master model is very new and is only just making it's appearance in the European education system.

3. Of course it isn't, & that's been a big part of my argument.
4. Yes, of course. But not all of Europe is France.
5. Did I say spatial planning was a particular commonality? In the older parts of some cities & in some old towns, there are similarities in terms of spatial planning. But I said architecture, which refers to the way the buildings themselves are built.
6. & 9. Yes, I agree. But again, this does nothing to establish Europe as common entity opposed to the U.S. The point is that the roots of all of these systems are European in origin.

[Joe McCarthy]

i say yes, i dont define the west by purity of race. i doubt the pure white race is the mainstream definition of the west

That's probably because being a Gypsy mongrel yourself, you're hostile to anything hinting at a racial definition of civilization.

Unfortunately for people like yourself, scholars on civilization like Quigley and Huntington do take race into account as one component of many in defining civilization. A mixed race mestizo whose identity is informed in part by Amerindian indigenous beliefs is simply not going to be as Western as an Italian Roman Catholic in Rome, no matter how much you may wish it.

[Peyrol]

Not speaking of geography but in general.. do you view it as being Western like the US, Canada, and Western Europe?

Western latin america: Uruguay, Argentina, Southern Brazil, Chile.

Non western: the rest (from Paraguay to Mexico).

[Gigolo]

That's probably because being a Gypsy mongrel yourself, you're hostile to anything hinting at a racial definition of civilization.

Unfortunately for people like yourself, scholars on civilization like Quigley and Huntington do take race into account as one component of many in defining civilization. A mixed race mestizo whose identity is informed in part by Amerindian indigenous beliefs is simply not going to be as Western as an Italian Roman Catholic in Rome, no matter how much you may wish it.

I do take race or heritage into account but i dont think its important how much "pure race" they are. Nobody is pure even Europeans are up to 5% Neandthertal.

Edit: and im dissapointed how you called me a gypsy mongrel, i thought you are more cultured.

[Joe McCarthy]

Edit: and im dissapointed how you called me a gypsy mongrel, i thought you are more cultured.

It was more of a statement as to how one's background influences their thinking than an insult. One can pretty easily predict what kind of position someone will take on these issues depending on their racial, ethnic, or national background.

[Gigolo]

It was more of a statement as to how one's background influences their thinking than an insult. One can pretty easily predict what kind of position someone will take on these issues depending on their racial, ethnic, or national background.

but i also said western civilization was founded by the white man and derrives from western europe. but the very same whites spread their culture on others, christianity, government system, values etc. i think many things are to be taken into account.

[Joe McCarthy]

but i also said western civilization was founded by the white man and derrives from western europe. but the very same whites spread their culture on others, christianity, government system, values etc. i think many things are to be taken into account.

Okay, but can someone like Barack Hussein Obama be as Western as George W. Bush? Obama is Westernized, certainly, but much of his identity is Kenyan. Bush has no such identity issues. Surely you can see how race is a real factor here, and how it plays into identity and how one sees the world, and that Obama is less Western than Bush precisely due to race?

Apply this to Western Europe and Latin America and you have a significant gulf on a civilizational scale.

[Leliana]

'No in entirety.' Latin America is an amalgation of different people, races and ethnicties, and the native Southern American element plays a large role. They aren't part of the Western World. The Western World, that is Europe and Northern America.

[Sigur Rós]

'No in entirety.' Latin America is an amalgation of different people, races and ethnicties, and the native Southern American element plays a large role. They aren't part of the Western World. The Western World, that is Europe and Northern America.

I think that it depends on where win LA you're located, but most of its populations like lets say example Rio, Buenos Aires, Santiago, Bogota, Santo Domingo are in big urban communities that have strong Western attitudes, while the minority, people of native descendants like many of Bolivia, Peru's amazon regions (example) are more like rural people, with little Western influences.