God.

[Sarmatian]

As I saw you are one of those people on apricity who say that they have spoken
with gods ( i hope that drugs have nothing to do with this ) so your biased mind need to multiple God.

To give you some relief I do not smoke, not drinking alcohol and not taking drugs.

I stumbled upon some things that could not be explained by science or church. Having scientific background I'd tried to find explanation for it and had some intriguing experiences that drastically changed my perception of the world.

As I have said you have discovered hot water looking purely from religious view.
What you ingeniously considered is my wondering why jews and muims are not christians because in the Old testament ( genesis ) God refers to himself in plural, refers as Trinity to be more exact.
Yahve ( one entity ), the Lord ( second entity ) and the Holy Spirit ( third entity ). I did write "entity" ( it is actually one entity ) but it is said many times in the Old and the New testament
that the Holy Spirit, the Lord and the Yahweh ( I am who I am ) are the same "person".
Christian philosophers were struggling for centuries to define the Trinity with little luck so far and what you thought of they were discussing it for centuries.

I'm aware of the concept of Holy Trinity but has never been able to fully understand it. It seems like it just doesn't fit my heretic soul
The fact that even Christian philosophers have so much troubles with this idea and its controversy lead to major disasters like religious wars to me is enough reason to question intentions of creators of this religion.

There is however an answer but it is not worth discussing it with someone who is not a Christian and it is especially not worth discussing it over forum.

I appreciate your understanding.

[Teyrn]

Did you mean Devil? I'm not familiar with this entity as I had no interest in it thus no experience.

From my experience Yhvh is neither Creator nor Devil. He existed long time before Moses.

Thanks for pointing out the typos.

So, lacking familiarity with the devil, and considering Yahweh to be neither creator or anti-creator, who or what do you envison to be God?

[Sarmatian]

Thanks for pointing out the typos.

So, lacking familiarity with the devil, and considering Yahweh to be neither creator or anti-creator, who or what do you envison to be God?

The God which created our universe? He has no personality, he is everywhere and in everything. Pretty much The God is universe itself and there is no way a human able to perceive Him nor fully understand Him because we are part of universe thus part of Him. Big Bang is Creation of the universe. Or depending on the way you look at it you can call it as appearance of God.

[Teyrn]

The God which created our universe? He has no personality, he is everywhere and in everything. Pretty much The God is universe itself and there is no way a human able to perceive Him nor fully understand Him because we are part of universe thus part of Him. Big Bang is Creation of the universe. Or depending on the way you look at it you can call it as appearance of God.

It sounds like either a pantheistic or panentheistic view of the divine, correct?

[Sarmatian]

It sounds like either a pantheistic or panentheistic view of the divine, correct?

Yes, sort of pantheistic but not panentheistic.

Pantheists are often refusing the concept of God completely. I do not agree with it. I tend to think He is conscious and fully self-aware entity. All global processes in our Universe are driven by His conscious effort.

His personification is impossible because he is pretty much sum of all possible personalities. For that reason I think suggestion that He and Jesus are identical is wrong. Jesus is personification of pure Love, he is only part of The One. And this part is equally important to Universe as lets say Lucifer.

[Teyrn]

His personification is impossible because he is pretty much sum of all possible personalities. For that reason I think suggestion that He and Jesus are identical is wrong. Jesus is personification of pure Love, he is only part of The One. And this part is equally important to Universe as lets say Lucifer.

So Lucifer to you represents sort of the Promethean figure, a bringer of knowledge and wisdom rather than a figure of rebellion and pride? But they, Jesus, Lucifer, etc., are merely personifications of the unpersonified supreme deity?

[Sarmatian]

So Lucifer to you represents sort of the Promethean figure, a bringer of knowledge and wisdom rather than a figure of rebellion and pride?

No, Lucifer represent chaos. He is the one between light and darkness (nonexistence). Him and Jesus are the only two capable to look into darkness unharmed. But while Jesus only does that occasionally Lucifer is in constant contact with the darkness. Basically one of his sides always turned toward life and light while the other always looking into darkness and its very heavy burden. For that reason he know value of life as no other entity. People who lost sense of life instinctively trying to reach him to experience the feeling of nonexistence, absolute emptiness. This allow them to rediscover the value of life including their own lives.
He constantly creating lies and spreading them all over the world via his servants. The purpose is to find underdeveloped souls. Anyone whose soul is resonating to such false constructs getting hard lessons in life to enforce his development.
His unique duty is source of his pride, sense of exclusivity. But there is no rebellion, it meant to be like that from the beginning for purpose of balance.

But they, Jesus, Lucifer, etc., are merely personifications of the unpersonified supreme deity?

Each of them is independent, conscious and self-aware entity within supreme entity called The God. The supreme entity could be explained as pure sense of self-awareness, sense of existence, 'I Am'. Thus He presented in every self-aware entity including humans. So you can say that you have all of Him within yourself. At the same time we all are part of Him participating in His Game called Life.

[Sturmgewehr]

Great thread Teyrn, GeistFaust as always with great analogies.

Too bad I don't feel proficient to get involved in serious discussion concerning God and teleological arguments.

Sarmatian also brings up some good points even though I can't wrap my mind around the UNIVERSE = GOD, I find it very tenuous to impute God the properties or features of the universe since we all know from the dawn of civilization the notion of God has always been related to a supreme being who has created the world or something thus Spinoza's God doesn't really appeal to me.

[Insuperable]

To give you some relief I do not smoke, not drinking alcohol and not taking drugs.

I stumbled upon some things that could not be explained by science or church. Having scientific background I'd tried to find explanation for it and had some intriguing experiences that drastically changed my perception of the world.



I'm aware of the concept of Holy Trinity but has never been able to fully understand it. It seems like it just doesn't fit my heretic soul
The fact that even Christian philosophers have so much troubles with this idea and its controversy lead to major disasters like religious wars to me is enough reason to question intentions of creators of this religion.



I appreciate your understanding.

I am a little confused here because yours view on God seems to be like a mix of christianity and something else which does need to be exclusive.
You believe in the existence of God, mention Christ often...
Anyway I am all ears regarding your experinces.
If you do not want to post them publically feel free to send me a private message and Ill try to be open minded

I gave my view of God based on scientific calculations but it seems to me we went to far into religion.
I thought this thread was about the existence of God on general

[Sarmatian]

I am a little confused here because yours view on God seems to be like a mix of christianity and something else which does need to be exclusive.
You believe in the existence of God, mention Christ often...

I think there is no right or wrong religion/tradition. They all looking at the same thing but they see different parts of it. To see the whole system you have to look at it from the outside but how can you do that when you are a part of the system?

Anyway I am all ears regarding your experinces.
If you do not want to post them publically feel free to send me a private message and Ill try to be open minded

My experiences are hard and too long to explain. They bring me to conclusion that every single human constantly connected to different entities like Gods, angels, spirits, demons and receiving vast amounts of information that affect our decisions. But most of the time we consider this information as our own thoughts.

I gave my view of God based on scientific calculations but it seems to me we went to far into religion.
I thought this thread was about the existence of God on general

To understand The God you have to look into creation (Big bang). The moment before BB there was absolute emptiness, nonexistense. Then in some point He enfoced His existence by 'puncturing' this emptiness with His pure will. That will is His main attribute, thats the force that driving all our universe. Pure conscious Will. No reasoning, no understanding, no emotions.

In biblical terms it can be explained as He realized the fact of His existence by saying the Word. This word was 'I am' meaning 'I do exists'.

In the initial moment of creation total amount of information was One, as entire universe was concentrated in one single point. There was no directions, no volume, no space, nothing but simple 1 which He is. He is the simplest, most primitive entity as He represented by minimal amount of information possible.

The next moment He started to illuminate the darkness by projecting Himself onto it. He started to expand and multiply Himself into ever increasing number of points. Information started to increase and multiply while His will started to spread. Scientists call it cooling due to expansion. Every single entity in our universe has Him as a core element of selfawareness around which all other informational structures are built.

With multiplication of information the Game of Life was started. At first a number of powerful primitive basic entities was created out of which more complex entities evolved. Creator has no direct control over the process and is rather a passive viewer. He only get involved by assigning His will to specific entity thus affecting its ability to act.