Online, liberals far less tolerant than normal people

[The Lawspeaker]

For Americans

[Graham]

I think that the difference between American and European liberalism is showing again and again and again. You would call me a liberal but that's because you're American. Here in Western Europe I would be considered somewhat conservative (and utterly racist because I reject the multicultural society because both left and right support it here).

Americans would say that European politics (particularly Nordic and Dutch politics) is to the left from them but that's because from the perspective of the common everyday man here our political system would be centrist and Americans would be seen as ... far-right nutjobs. Even the VVD here (which is considered fiscally conservative here) would in fact be just to the left of the mainstream in the American Democratic Party.

Yeah, differen't perspectives to Left and right in differen't areas. It's a Social class system of voting here.

Working class or those who perceive themselves as working class, vote left. The elite or Capitalists/Buisness vote Right.

Then you get those who vote left or right because that's what their Parents did. Without knowing any policies. It's Like supporting a football team.

Multiculturalism doesn't come into the equation. It can be a left or right policy. Unless you go to the far end of the spectrum.

[The Lawspeaker]

Yeah, differen't perspectives to Left and right in differen't areas. It's a Social class system of voting here.

Working class or those who perceive themselves as working class, vote left. The elite or Capitalists/Buisness vote Right.

Then you get those who vote left or right because that's what their Parents did. Without knowing any policies. It's Like supporting a football team.

Multiculturalism doesn't come into the equation. It can be a left or right policy.

Exactly. And even if it does than people will be forced to sail between Charybdis and Scylla (socio-economically speaking). So for the most part it hasn't been much of a decisive factor in European politics.

[Caismeachd]

In US it's the opposite. Working class votes right (for big corporations, Jesus, picking up from the bootstraps mentality etc) despite the right more or less siphoning off and marginalizing their class and people as a whole, while the left are generally rich and aren't really exposed to much hardship.

[The Lawspeaker]

In US it's the opposite. Working class votes right (for big corporations, Jesus, picking up from the bootstraps mentality etc) despite the right more or less siphoning off and marginalizing their class and people as a whole, while the left are generally rich and aren't really exposed to much hardship.

I think for Western Europeans what the Americans wouldn't make sense at all (politically speaking).

[Caismeachd]

It doesn't even make sense in America.

[Graham]

In America working class maybe vote right. For more freedom, less state control over their lives, less Taxes.

[The Lawspeaker]

In America working class maybe vote right. For more freedom, less state control over their lives, less Taxes.

While the rich support the right by word of mouth but vote for the left. Besides: less taxes. American rich pay nothing compared to here or anywhere else in Western Europe. While American poor seem to be pay more then we do but it seems to depend on the state.

[Graham]

While the rich support the right by word of mouth but vote for the left. Besides: less taxes. American rich pay nothing compared to here or anywhere else in Western Europe. While American poor seem to be pay more then we do but it seems to depend on the state.

Not sure but isn't that why they have the Tea Party movement? I don't know much about American politics. Pro Republican movement and pro working class towards taxation.

[Kazimiera]

Reading the above, I can surmise that political perspective is formed by the environment in which one grew up in. Interesting that someone who is perceived as left in one country can be viewed as right in another. I don't have a means for comparison because I have not lived anywhere else in the world, but if I lived in Europe and experienced what the Europeans do chances are that I would vote considerably different than I would here in South Africa. Same counts for America - I do not live there and have not experienced what they have, so I cannot say for certain what I would vote for.

This would also explain why certain people on this forum sometimes have a rather "violent" reaction to my political status. So at the end of the day, not all is as it seems.

I will use Islam as an example, from my own perspective.

In a South African context I have nothing against Islam. People can worship whomever they please and how they please. As we are quite literally at the ass end of the world, all this anti-Islamism has passed us by. We read about all the terror attacks in the papers but the reality is that Islam is neither here nor there. They are not a threat to anyone here. And they have been part of our culture in Cape because of Indonesian and Malaysian slaves which were brought over. Everyone minds their own business and life goes on as normal. I have no issue with Islam.

ON THE OTHER HAND.....

If I was living in a country where suddenly they arrived in their droves and demanded that the rules of society are rewritten to include them, I'd tell them to f-off. Just as no-one has the right to walk into the Middle East and demand that a Christian church be built and the school curriculum changed to suit their religion, Muslims do not have a right to walk into a foreign country and suddenly expect the rules to be revised for them. I'd also be pissed off if I lived in Europe and this was the case. I'd tell them to shove off, and rather sooner than later. If you cannot abide by the laws and customs of the country, don't move there. Simple.

So I would have two different views on the same subject regarding which country I lived in and how it affected my society.

I always take the "political orientation" under the avatar with a pinch of salt. You cannot judge someone else until you have walked a mile in their shoes. It's all a matter of perspective. I might strongly disagree with someone's opinion on this forum, but were I in the same situation as they chances are that I would agree with them.

This is why I think it is extremely important not to lump everyone together onto the same heap and rather to judge individuals for what they are.