Cro-magnoids: I need examples, please post

[Linebacker]

The Old Man of Cro-Magnon was actually only 700 years old. Cro-Magnons just looked like Neanderthals with higher vaults and slightly less robusticity.

I will commend you on posting a real Brunn example, though. You might be one of the only people here who actually understands what a Brunn is.

When people say that(Another member here claimed 600) I get confused the fuck out.

Doesn't data say the fossils found in Cro magnon France were at least 30,000 years old?

[TCDA1986]

Seeing as Cro-Magnons lived more than 20,000 years ago, I doubt we're going to say any actual photos of CM's here.

[Stimpy]

The Old Man of Cro-Magnon was actually only 700 years old.

I'm pretty sure that the famous "Old man of Crô-Magnon" / ''Cro-Magnon 1'' have been carbon dated to be around 28,000 years old. Why do you think that it's actually 700 years old?

[Prisoner Of Ice]

I'm pretty sure that the famous "Old man of Crô-Magnon" / ''Cro-Magnon 1'' have been carbon dated to be around 28,000 years old. Why do you think that it's actually 700 years old?

It's never been carbon dated. A hand bone found with it was dated to 700 years however. I think it's older than that though, it looks like it's mineralized.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

I think that most cro-magnon reconstructions look extremely similar to very pure, unreduced Brünns when it comes to phenotype.

Your cromagnon man example:


Man with unreduced Brünn phenotype:

Reconstruction actually looks a lot like me.

[Stimpy]

It's never been carbon dated. A hand bone found with it was dated to 700 years however. I think it's older than that though, it looks like it's mineralized.

All I get up if I google ''Old man of Crô-Magnon 700 years old'' is this exact thread, all other sources I can find either says that it's 28,000 or 30,000 years old.

The original Cro-Magnon find was discovered in a rock shelter at Les Eyzies+, Dordogne+, France+. The type specimen from the site is Cro-Magnon 1+, carbon dated to about 28,000 14C years old. (27,680 ± 270 BP).

[Prisoner Of Ice]

http://johnhawks.net/weblog/fossils/...tdna-2013.html

The exception was the Cro-Magnon 1 sample, which belonged to the derived hg T2b1, an unexpected hg given its putative age of 30,000 years [16]. Since the radiocarbon date for this specimen was obtained from an associated shell [16], we dated the sample itself using accelerator mass spectrometry (AMS). Surprisingly, the sample had a much younger age of about 700 years, suggesting a medieval origin. Consequently, this bone fragment has now been removed from the Cro-Magnon collection at the Muse de lHomme in Paris. Attempts to directly date other remains from the Cro-Magnon type collection unfortunately failed. The good molecular preservation of our sample for both DNA and AMS dating, in contrast, suggests that this particular bone has a different origin from the other remains in the collection.

one of the Cro-Magnon human remains has yet yielded a radiocarbon date, and Alain indicates that the organic carbon is gone.

You have to carbon date stuff when you find it, not hundreds of years afterwards, obviously. And if a fossil is totally mineralized like cromag-1 appears to be, you can't date it at all.

I have to question how they can get a date off of a shell, too. It's either been in the ground and they had to guess that it was really on the same level as the find, or else it was dug up at the same time and has the same issues that cromag-1 itself would have.

There's also a chance it's much older, too. I am not sure what I believe. It's a sort of crucial transition in europe but we don't know exactly what happened. Cromag type obviously doesn't originate outside europe however, all the oldest ones are european and it does show up in africa until 20k years ago or so. The ones in east europe are also more like 35k years old.

Considering though that we have 25k year old and 30k year old full neanderthals found on either side of the site in question, I am starting to think Glenn Iverson is right and nothing came from anywhere - cromag is just the evolution from neanderthal.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

It can also be cromag were always around in europe somewhere (or close by) but we have only found them in certain timeframes.

[Amud]

It can also be cromag were always around in europe somewhere (or close by) but we have only found them in certain timeframes.

I'd think that there were a variety of different races or populations of humans around that time, because there's a big difference between the Neanderthal-looking humans like Predmosti, the type we see in Oberkassell and at Cro-Mag 1, and the Solutre series, which were more gracile but actually earlier than the Magdalenian Oberkassell skulls. I think the Solutre skull that I have seen looks like a gracilized Neanderthal or Predmosti/Brunn type. Oberkassel and Cro-Mag 1 look like Jomon/Ainu, and I'm not the only one to think this. Coon thought so too.

Hooton hypothesized that the euryproscopic / dolichocephalic "Cro-Magnons" were a disharmonious blend of long-headed and short-headed types. We see very few people with those measurements today. I think the Berid type would be the closest.

[AndersP]

Thats not what I've read, I can imagine the relevance of these studies being contested, but with all the haplogroup U, that Basque people are possesing, it makes sense.

http://fennoscandia.blogspot.cz/2014...ardinians.html

Tha linked model (analysis based on autosomal haplotypes shows that the La Braña 1 and Basque/Sardinians share the largest haplotypes because they are closest to each other in geneology. This probably means that the La Braña 1 later become partially of what we now know as Basque/Sardinians. If the La Braña 1 had been found in Northern Scandinavia he would probably become closest to Saamis/Finns. The linked model usually capture more recent ancestry and can masque more ancient relationships.

The unlinked model (unlinked SNP frequencies similarities) portray much more ancient relationship and it shows undoubtly that La Braña 1 cluster with Saamis and Finns but also shows relationships to especially Lithuanians. However Lithuanians have mixed more with other peoples as they have not been so isolated as Saamis and Finns. The La Braña 1 cluster with Saamis and Finns ins MDS, PCA, Finestructure/Chromopainter and in GAGA clustering software in other words using different methodical approaches.