Dutch at war with Venezuela

[The Lawspeaker]

Dutch at war with Venezuela
New York Times. 14 December 1908.

More about the Dutch-Venezuelan War.

[Albion]

I think everyone's been at war with those arseholes at some stage in history.
Some nations are naturally stubborn and uncooperative and need putting in their place. A bit of gunboat diplomacy is needed every once in a while to remind certain countries of their obligations.

Venezuela Crisis 1895

The Venezuela Crisis of 1895 occurred over Venezuela's longstanding dispute with the United Kingdom about the territory of Essequibo and Guayana Esequiba, which Britain claimed as part of British Guiana and Venezuela saw as Venezuelan territory. As the dispute became a crisis, the key issue became Britain's refusal to include in the proposed international arbitration the territory east of the "Schomburgk Line", which a surveyor had drawn half a century earlier as a boundary between Venezuela and the former Dutch territory of British Guiana. The crisis ultimately saw Britain accept the United States' intervention in the dispute to force arbitration of the entire disputed territory, and tacitly accept the United States' right to intervene under the Monroe Doctrine. A tribunal convened in Paris in 1898 to decide the matter, and in 1899 awarded the bulk of the disputed territory to British Guiana.

Venezuela Crisis of 1902–1903

The Venezuela Crisis of 1902-1903 was a naval blockade from December 1902 to February 1903 imposed against Venezuela by Britain, Germany and Italy over President Cipriano Castro's refusal to pay foreign debts and damages suffered by European citizens in a recent Venezuelan civil war. Castro assumed that the United States' Monroe Doctrine would see the US prevent European military intervention, but at the time the US saw the Doctrine as concerning European seizure of territory, rather than intervention per se. With prior promises that no such seizure would occur, the US allowed the action to go ahead without objection. The blockade saw Venezuela's small navy quickly disabled, but Castro refused to give in, and instead agreed in principle to submit some of the claims to international arbitration, which he had previously rejected. Germany initially objected to this, particularly as it felt some claims should be accepted by Venezuela without arbitration.
When the US press reacted negatively to incidents including the sinking of two Venezuelan ships and the bombardment of the coast, the US pressured the parties to settle, and drew attention to its nearby naval fleet. With Castro failing to back down, US pressure and increasingly negative British and American press reaction to the affair, the blockading nations agreed to a compromise, but maintained the blockade during negotiations over the details. This led to the signing of an agreement on 13 February 1903 which saw the blockade lifted, and Venezuela commit 30% of its customs duties to settling claims. When an arbitral tribunal subsequently awarded preferential treatment to the blockading powers against the claims of other nations, the US feared this would encourage future European intervention. The episode contributed to the development of the Roosevelt Corollary to the United States' Monroe Doctrine, asserting a right of the United States to intervene to "stabilize" the economic affairs of small states in the Caribbean and Central America if they were unable to pay their international debts, in order to preclude European intervention to do so.

[The Lawspeaker]

Can you believe that no one in the Netherlands has ever heard about this pathetic little war ? At least the Indonesians were a worthy opponent. Aceh managed to keep us busy for some 30 blood-soaked years before they realised that resistance was futile and that they would be assimilated.

[brunette]

Do you agree or not?

[Albion]

Diplomatic relations between the governments of the Netherlands and Venezuela were established in 1921 following a treaty to that effect concluded at Caracas on May 11, 1920. Relations between the two governments were strained, since the Venezuelan navy seized some Dutch ships during the First World War - even though the Dutch government remained neutral - and in that treaty, the Venezuelan government agreed to pay the Dutch government 20,000 Bolivars as indemnity for seizure of those ships.

The ABC Islands, all dependencies of the Kingdom of the Netherlands lie less than 15 miles (24 km) off Venezuela's shores. Chávez has described himself as a fierce opponent of "colonialism" and as such, is opposed to a large Western power having what he perceives as having undue influence in Latin America and the Caribbean. The most populous of these territories are the island is Curaçao, whose demographics are not like that of Venezuela and much of South America. Chávez has called for "revolutionary independence" for these Islands, a proposition that has disturbed many islanders and high-ranking Dutch military officials in The Hague. This, combined with Chávez's recent alliances with nations hostile to the Western world, has prompted the Dutch government to position Dutch naval equipment on several unpopulated islands near Venezuela.

Chavez just a half caste who hates Europeans. The Netherlands isn't a threat to South America nor Venezuela, his interests are in gaining the islands for Argentina or extending a sphere of influence over the islands.

In January 2010, the Dutch PM Balkenende dismissed the allegations of Chávez that US war planes were being deployed as part of a planned attack. During a television interview Chávez had said "We accuse the American and the Dutch governments of provoking Venezuela and planning aggression". He showed a photograph of a US P3 warplane as proof. According to Balkenende the planes were being used to combat drug trafficking and the picture had been "taken from Wikipedia" and was dated from 2002 .

More paranoia. America would attack via Colombia or Guyana for a start. Attacking from the north is like walking in through the front door and announcing to everyone you're there.

[The Lawspeaker]

Do you agree or not?

With Chavez ? I hope they kill him one day.

[The Lawspeaker]

I wouldn't say it often but I think that Curaçao and the Netherlands should have a word with America something about that we offer the United States some territory to build military installations on Curaçao and maybe Bonaire (which is officially Dutch soil as it is a bijzondere gemeente) and that the Kingdom of the Netherlands would like to sign a separate Caribbean defence alliance with the United States and nations in the region.

Hell.. I still think we should bring back the draft anyway and send conscripts to the ABC-Islands (if Curaçao and Aruba would allow it, of course) to train alongside the members of the local militia and (if they would be brought in) American troops.

[Albion]

I wouldn't say it often but I think that Curaçao and the Netherlands should have a word with America something about that we offer the United States some territory to build military installations on Curaçao and maybe Bonaire (which is officially Dutch soil as it is a bijzondere gemeente) and that the Kingdom of the Netherlands would like to sign a separate Caribbean defence alliance with the United States and nations in the region.

[IMG][/IMG]

Might as well, since we control islands in the region anyway (which I don't think will change any time soon). Some of our territories even pre-date the union, two that spring to mind are Bermuda and St Helena, both sadly full of Africans now.

A separate treaty with the Americans concerning the Dutch Caribbean islands wouldn't be such a bad idea. Or there could be one between the three European powers of the Caribbean - the Netherlands along with Britain and France.

I think America is likely to shy away from any possible military treaties concerning European states in the Caribbean, they'd be accused of violating their own doctrines and cries of colonialism would resonate from Latin America. They wouldn't risk damaging their reputation like that, America working with Europeans in Latin America or the Caribbean is a big no-no.

A European alliance though would likely be called colonialism just the same, but we already get accused of that by being involved in that region anyway.

Curaco, Bonaire and Aruba could be strategically important for America to encircle what it sees as a rogue state in Venezuela. The other territories on that map are only useful for blockading the entire Caribbean or encircling Cuba.

Hell.. I still think we should bring back the draft anyway and send conscripts to the ABC-Islands (if Curaçao and Aruba would allow it, of course) to train alongside the members of the local militia and (if they would be brought in) American troops.

Hmmm.... I dislike the idea of sacrificing European lives to save a few Mesticos from being annexed. However, national pride would be at stake and sending conscripts to those islands would serve as good tropical climate training.
I think we send ours to Belize and British Indian Ocean Territory for that sort of thing. Belize is one of those hopeless former colonies where the people are practically begging for us to return. Another is Jamaica where the power-hungry PM is to abolish the monarchy in an attempt to kill ties.

I'm all for conscription by the way. Without it a country is hopeless if it gets invaded. A lot of people bitch about now wanting an army of amateurs, but the conscripts could form a separate section of the army and wouldn't be a replacement for professional soldiers, they'd just be reservists.
It'd also delay the youth unemployment problem for a few years and would train our youngsters in useful skills. They wouldn't be paid for it, they'd just be fed and watered.

[The Lawspeaker]

There is also another reason why we should fight to defend the ABC-islands other than national pride alone:



The Isla oil refinery close to Willemstad, Curaçao.

[brunette]

With Chavez ? I hope they kill him one day.

Lol.