Iberian vs. Italic look.

[Sikeliot]

A similar thread to Detfri's.

Who are some people who strike you as more Iberian versus Italic and what are the differences?

I've found there are a number of distinct Iberian looks which, although to some extent can pass in Italy, the vibe is distinctly Iberian and would not quite be at home elsewhere. Some examples from Portugal;












I find Iberians tend to have more Cromagnid, Atlantid, and less Dinaric and Alpine.

[Sikeliot]

The extreme Cromagnid types as well as the horsy Atlantids in Iberia are the ones who stand out most, also.

[Dacul]

I think iberians got a lot of gothic+celtic ancestry,especially Spain compared to Italians.
Because most spaniards have that long face with high cheekbones and harsh face lines .
It was confirmed by some recent Y DNA deep tests that in northern Spain there are significant percentages of I2B-M223 that is clearly asociated with goths and germanics.
(9% in some Pyrénees population).
They also found R1B-L21 (which is celtic marker) - 16%.
Most Y DNA is from R1b-P312 and from what I know most R1B in goths from Sweden is P312 and not S21,which seems to be asociated with other germanics (S21 seems to be asociated with germanics from Germany Austria and so on and not with goths).
http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/conten...ss091.abstract

[Sikeliot]

To me the main differences are -

1) Iberians have more Atlantid, thus explaining the "horsy" looks that you don't see so often in Italy.

2) Iberians are more Cromagnid explaining their (on average) smaller eyes and distinct facial lines. Also, we tend to have further spaced eyes, exemplified in some of the Portuguese people above.

3) Iberians have less Dinaric and Alpine and thus, are more homogenous than Italians.

[gold_fenix]

i would say that Italian men have lighter features than Spaniard and dinarizated features in different degree, we have smaller eyes than Italian and a different expression in they respect to Italian I think Iberian altought we are mediterranean we haven't that characteristical mediterranean eyes, it seems to we have the torus accented, too we are more homogeneous, Italy is strongly variable in phenotypes according to zone

[Sikeliot]

I think Iberian altought we are mediterranean we haven't that characteristical mediterranean eyes

I agree. Maybe the reason I find Portuguese people so distinctive is that most of us have a definite Cromagnid look to our eyes.. something I don't see as often in Italy.

[Dacul]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visigoths
"In or around 589, the Visigoths, under Reccared I, converted from Arianism to the Nicene faith, gradually adopting the culture of their Hispano-Roman subjects. Liber Iudiciorum (completed in 654) abolished the old tradition of having different laws for Romans and for Visigoths, so that legal distinctions were no longer made between Romani and Gothi, coalescing them into Hispani. "
(visigoths came to Spain and remained there,they mixed with population from there and this is how spaniard nation appeared.)

[Sikeliot]

Also a note for everyone - "Romani" above means Romans, not Gypsies. Since Romani is also a name for Gypsies.

[Rouxinol]

Smaller and more deep-set eyes (Cro-Magnid influence) might be one of the most distinctive features that distances Portuguese - and I guess Spaniards too - from the Italic look. As well as the much lower frequency of dinarization.

[Sikeliot]

Also I'd like to point out that in profile, most Iberians would not have the classic Roman look exemplified by Roman busts (which, however, is common in modern Central Italians), due to the shape of the nose and the profile view.