Croats and Serbs are true Illyrians

[Insuperable]

it's proven by and accepted by all respected scholars that we are illyrians.
i dont care wtf you are

Scholars agree that you are a mix of Illyrians Thracians and Dacians.
That means that you werent ancient Illyrians

[Dacul]

Well, i am not saying that the people lived in illyria 2000 years ago has been disappeared. I am sure some of their descendants are living in the world today but what i am saying is, it`s not possible to know who they are.

But adhering the so-called people of illyria to any nation in 21st century is a joke. I mean, if anyone claims that Serbians or Albanians are the children of illyrians, then i am the true blood Sumerian and Balkan gypsies are the descendants of King Tutankhamon !!!

Any objections?

Dude is possibile that romanians from south Romania are also a lil mixed with cumans and those were turks .
So we are thraco-daco-ilyro-lwhatever colonists from Roman empire-germano-turks?
Lawl.

In the same ideea as your post:
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/0...7704OR20110801
"Half of European men share King Tut's DNA"
Lol.

[Drawing-slim]

Hahhah, its saturday.
On the weekends serbs claim to be illyrians, because it requires full days off to let the imagination spin out of controll.
During weekdays, serbs claim to be from norway sweeden etc
Midweek they start calling themselves german and english, then slowly weekend comes and here we are

These servs are a sad case. lool

[Guapo]

Hahhah, its saturday.
On the weekends serbs claim to be illyrians, because it requires full days off to let the imagination spin out of controll.
During weekdays, serbs claim to be from norway sweeden etc
Midweek they start calling themselves german and english, then slowly weekend comes and here we are

These servs are a sad case. lool

cool story but albanians still aren't illyrians.

[Onur]

Dude is possibile that romanians from south Romania are also a lil mixed with cumans and those were turks .
So we are thraco-daco-ilyro-lwhatever colonists from Roman empire-germano-turks?
Lawl.

In the same ideea as your post:
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/0...7704OR20110801
"Half of European men share King Tut's DNA"
Lol.

Well, you can write more "lul, lolz, lawl, roflz" but certainly, there are more of Cuman Turkic influence in Romania than illyrian, thracian ones (we don't even know who they were and what is the proof of their influence if there is any at all).

Southern Romania is full of Cuman Turkic elements; cities, towns, regional names like Cumaneshti, Komaneti, Komane etc., 1000s of today`s Romanians with Cuman surnames like Nadia Komanachi and guess who founded the first ever Romanian state? The monarchy of Basarab and they were Cuman Turks, "basarab" is a corrupt version of Turkic word "Basar oba" meaning "ruling fathers/family".

Despite these facts, it would be stupid to say that todays Romanians are Cuman Turks of 13th century but you Romanians definitely have more Cuman influence than Albanians ever has from illyrians (shallow people with full of unknowns). Yes, surely there are the children of Cumans living among you just as illyrians among today`s Albanians but thats it.

So we are thraco-daco-ilyro-lwhatever colonists from Roman empire-germano-turks?

Maybe you were joking but in fact, you just wrote more or less the ethnic composition of today`s Romania. Also add Aryans too, because of gypsies in there.

[Yaroslav]

I really find movements such as "Illyrianism" or "Macedonism" or "Hellenism" to be stupid. Lots of human migrations and inter-mixing has occurred and to claim to be a pure descendent of some ancient group of which there is very little knowledge of is stupid and pointless.

[Dacul]

Well, you can write more "lul, lolz, lawl, roflz" but certainly, there are more of Cuman Turkic influence in Romania than illyrian, thracian ones (we don't even know who they were and what is the proof of their influence if there is any at all).

Southern Romania is full of Cuman Turkic elements; cities, towns, regional names like Cumaneshti, Komaneti, Komane etc., 1000s of today`s Romanians with Cuman surnames like Nadia Komanachi and guess who founded the first ever Romanian state? The monarchy of Basarab and they were Cuman Turks, "basarab" is a corrupt version of Turkic word "Basar oba" meaning "ruling fathers/family".

Despite these facts, it would be stupid to say that todays Romanians are Cuman Turks of 13th century but you Romanians definitely have more Cuman influence than Albanians ever has from illyrians (shallow people with full of unknowns). Yes, surely there are the children of Cumans living among you just as illyrians among today`s Albanians but thats it.

Well I am not really sure if Coman comes from cumans or Komanesti or Komana.
Also I am not really sure if Basarab was a cuman.I saw that also some romanian historians are telling that Basarab was cuman,but I am not believe it,neither deny it.

How much ancestry from cumans got romanians that Y DNA can tell,from the fathers side.
If you would do some deep DNA testing.

[~Nik~]

>>Albanians have NOTHING to do with Illyrians<<

Very true, the Albos have absolutely NO connection to the ancient Illyrians based on latest research, we can most probaly find their origin somewhere in the Caucasus.

Some facts to concider:
a)The Albanians were never mentioned in Byzantine, (not even of the works by Constantine VII Porphyrogenitus), Arab, Armenian or any other texts before the 12th cent.

b)Language:
Albanian is classified as an IE language only because no one has been able to classify it into any other group, and this is because no one has yet studied all the Caucasus languages.
Albanian might have IE sounding words, but its basic structure and syntax are more similar to Chechen and Udish than to any IE language. Many Albanian words do sound Indo- European, because Albanian has borrowed over 80% of its vocabulary, more than any other European language.
The Chechen language is similar to Albanian. They both have similar grammar and similar sounds such as SQ, PSHQ, which are not common in any IE languages, but are very common in Caucasus languages like Chechenian.
The Albanians call themselves "Shqip-tari". This name is not Indo-European in origin and contains in it the Ural-Altaic suffix "ar" or "tar". Much like: "Khaz-AR", "Av-AR", "Magy-AR", "Bulg-AR", "Hung-AR", "Ta-TAR" - "Ship-TAR". see:
CHECHENIA=ICHQERIA
ALBANIA=SHQIPTERIA

c)Their alphabet interestingly enough, had Arabic letters untill 1908 when the alphabet they use today was adopted.

d)The most ancient loanwords from Latin in Albanian have the phonetic form of eastern Balkan Latin, i.e. of proto-Rumanian, and not of western Balkan Latin, i.e. of old Dalmatian Latin. Albanian, therefore, did not take its borrowings from Vulgar Latin as spoken in Illyria.

e)The Adriatic coast was not part of the primitive home of the Albanians, because the maritime terminology of Albanian is not their own, but is borrowed from different languages.

f)Another indication against local Albanian origin is the insignificant number of ancient Greek loanwords in Albanian. If the primitive home of the Albanians had been Albania itself, then the Albanian language would have to have many more ancient Greek loanwords.

g)Just a few, of the many identical place-names between Albania and Caucasus:
Albo-Arnauti -Caucasus- Arnauti
(Turks and Balkan peoples call Albanians by this name; likely from arch. Turk: Arran)
Albo-Bushati - Caucasus-Bushati (also the name of an Albanian tribe)
Albo-Baboti - Caucasus-Baboti
Albo-Baka -Caucasus-Bako
Albo-Ballagati - Caucasus-Balagati
Albo-Ballaj,Balli - Caucasus- Bali
Albo-Bashkimi - Caucasus-Bashkoi
Albo-Bathore- Caucasus- Batharia
Albo-Bater- Caucasus- Bataris
Albo-Geg - Caucasus-Gegi, Gegeni, Geguti (Term used by Albanians in their language to denote their brethre north of the Shkumbi R.)
Albo-Demir Kapia - Caucasus-Demir Kapia (Turkish term: "iron gates"; term by which Turks refered to the Caspian Sea or arch: Albanian Sea)
Albo-Kish, Kisha... - Caucasus-Kish (Eight different toponyms in Albania begin with "kish")
Albo-Kurata,Kuratem,Kurateni(villages)-Caucasus-Kura (river) (Nine different toponyms in Albania begin with "Kura")
Albo-Luginasi - Caucasus-Lugini
Albo-Rusani - Caucasus-Rusian
Albo-Sheshani, Shoshani, Shashani - Caucasus-Shashani
Albo-Sheshaj, Sheshi - Caucasus-Sheshleti
Albo-Skalla - Caucasus-Skaleri
Albo-Shiptari Shipyaki, Shkhepa, - Caucasus-Shkepi
Albo-Shkoder - Caucasus-Shkeder, Shked, Shkoda
Albo-Shekulli - Caucasus-Shekouli
Albo-Skuraj - Caucasus-Skuria

h) The fact that Albanian is totally alien to the Illyrian language based on the Messapic inscriptions found in tombs. So we must come to the conclusion that they either came from a different location (Caucasus theory) or the Illyrian tribes had absolutely NO ability of comunicating with eachother.
(that does sound stupid don't you think?)

i) The Illyrian city names mentioned in ancient times that were kept do not follow the Albanian sound change laws, suggesting that they were late borrowing from an intermediary language (most likely Romance or Slavic), rather than inherited (for example ancient Aulona should have been inherited in modern Albanian as Alor? instead of Vlore.

j)Ptolemy in Book 5 chapter 15 titled "Location of Illyria or Liburnia, and of Dalmatia" (The Fifth Map of Europe)
Never mentions the alleged "albanopolis" that they support he has, and can be found at 46 degrees and 41 degrees 45', but when you look up what he really has writen, you find the city of Thermidava
Ptolemy's Goegraphy can be found at :
penelope.uchicago.edu/Tha.../home.html

k) Now, when we look at apostle Bartholomew's life, we find he labored in the area around the south end of the Caspian Sea, in the section that was then called Armenia. The modern name of the district where he died is Azerbaijan and the place of his death, called in New Testament times ALBANOPOLIS!!!, is now Derbend which is on the west coast of the Caspian Sea.

l) Out of a list of 40-50 Illyrian city names known to us only 2-5 of the Albanian city names can be connected to them.

m) There is NO MEMORY!!! of the Illyrian past in the Albanian cultural heritage.

n) One of the interesting facts that connect the Albanians to the Caucasus and that they are not the descendants of the Ancient Illyrians is the Turkish name for the Albanians. "Arnauti", which means "those who have not returned" in Arabic, for the Turks were aware of the origins of the Albanians. And they truly did not return, they stayed in Serbian and Byzantine lands.

o) Hard evidence is the Turkish censuses carried out in 1455, they indicate that Albanian names are found in only 80 of the 600 villages listed in the area, and that they did not constitute territorial groups, ruling out any assumptions that zones evenly and continuously inhabited by Albanians existed at the time.

p) The first Albo dictionary was published in 1635 and contained only 5,000 words, when today any pocket dictionary contains at least 250.000 proving that their language was still under development.

q) The most interesting fact is our knoledge of the Arab conquer of the Albanian Caucasus sometime around the 7th cent based on Byzantine, Arab and Armenian sources.
They were converted to Islam and used as military troops to attack Sicily, dividing it into two parts, (hence there was the Kingom of the two Sicilies). In order to populate their part of Sicily, the Arabs brought with them Old Albanians from the Caucasus.

Then in 1042, the Byzantine Empire attacked the yong Serbian state after having defeated the Arabs in Sicily and having brought the Sicilian Albanians under their command and christianizing them. The leader of the Byzantines who led the Albanians was named Georgius Maniakos. Maniakos brought Albanian mercenaries from Sicily to fight the Serbs and they settled in two waves in modern day Albania, first the mercanaries came, and then came the women and children. After the defeat of Maniakos, the Byzantines would not let the Albanians return, thus the Albanians requested that the Serbs let them stay on the land. They settled under mount Raban and the city of Berat and from this, the Serbs called them "Rabanasi" or "Arbanasi". The city of Berat was known as Belgrad also, before the Albanians came to settle there. They mostly tended sheep and cattle and lent themselves out to Serbian nobles as brave soldiers.

A fact to support this exept the texts themselfs is their flag. I'm sure you know that the Byzantine war flag was a double headed eagle on a red background.

[Firefly]

Albanians are considered descendants of Illyrians due to the many linguistic similarities. Example:
mal, "mountain"; cf. Alb mal
bardi, "white"; cf. Alb bardhë
drenis, "deer"; cf. Alb dre, dreni
delme (sheep); cf. Alb dele (sheep)
dard, "pear"; cf. Alb dardhë
sīca, "dagger"; cf. Alb thikë or thika "knife"
Ulc-, "wolf" (pln. Ulcinium); cf. Alb ujk "wolf"
brisa, "husk of grapes"; cf. Alb bërsí "lees, dregs; mash" (< PA *brutiā)
loúgeon, "pool"; cf. Alb lag, legen "to wet, soak, bathe, wash" (< PA *lauga), lëgatë "pool" (< PA *leugatâ), lakshte "dew" (< PA laugista)
mantía "bramblebush"; Old and dial. Alb mandë "berry, mulberry" (mod. Alb mën, mana)
rhinos, "fog, mist"; cf. OAlb ren "cloud" (mod. Alb re, rê) (< PA *rina)
http://indoeuro.bizland.com/project/glossary/illy.html

[Insuperable]

Albanians are considered descendants of Illyrians due to the many linguistic similarities. Example:
mal, "mountain"; cf. Alb mal
bardi, "white"; cf. Alb bardhë
drenis, "deer"; cf. Alb dre, dreni
delme (sheep); cf. Alb dele (sheep)
dard, "pear"; cf. Alb dardhë
sīca, "dagger"; cf. Alb thikë or thika "knife"
Ulc-, "wolf" (pln. Ulcinium); cf. Alb ujk "wolf"
brisa, "husk of grapes"; cf. Alb bërsí "lees, dregs; mash" (< PA *brutiā)
loúgeon, "pool"; cf. Alb lag, legen "to wet, soak, bathe, wash" (< PA *lauga), lëgatë "pool" (< PA *leugatâ), lakshte "dew" (< PA laugista)
mantía "bramblebush"; Old and dial. Alb mandë "berry, mulberry" (mod. Alb mën, mana)
rhinos, "fog, mist"; cf. OAlb ren "cloud" (mod. Alb re, rê) (< PA *rina)
http://indoeuro.bizland.com/project/glossary/illy.html

Does anybody look what I write
They ( Scholars ) believe that you are a mix of Illyrians Thracians and Dacians so it is not impossible to find Illyrian words in your languages

If for example Brits are a mix of Germans Dutch and Danes does that mean that Brits are Germans.