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Thread: Easy Romance

  1. #441
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    Romanians = Slavovlachs

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    Yo para ser feliz quiero un menhir. B01AB20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comte Arnau View Post
    It has not improved. Quantity has meant a loss of quality. Catalan is now like English in that it has more second speakers than first ones, and that is a hard influence on the native ones. What happens is that you don't notice it because it's more subtle than using a castellanada, but pay attention. When you have two options in Catalan, like prou and suficient, the one that is more different from Spanish is slowly getting lost. Now all young guys agafen l'autobús, because they identify agafar with coger, while prendre is reserved for tomar. The Spanish word altura can be translated as altura, alçària and alçada, the three meaning different things. Have you heard anyone using them right? Now young people don't use gaire in the negative, but molt, because Spanish uses mucho both for the affirmative and the negative. Not to mention the many idioms and insults I hear every day that are just Catalanized Spanish ones...

    So ok, now people make fewer mistakes, they can write Catalan properly and don't use obvious castellanades, but it's even worse. I prefer an old lady, who maybe can't write it and may even say things like gafes or hasta, but keeps a genuine intonation, knows how to use the pronouns, or uses a rich number of idioms that young people would hardly understand nowadays...
    Well, you're right.

    I remember a studies mate, he was from Girona, telling me an example with the phrase 'to write a letter, put it in a envelope...' and something more I can't remember now.
    Between the differents alternatives in catalan, 'lletra' o 'carta', 'envelop' (?) or 'sobri'... guess what were the normal way to say it in catalan and the weird one.



    But things are like you say in Barcelona and other big towns where castillians immigrants and their descendants are majority and castillian language is prevailing, I think in medium and little villages where native catalans are the great majority and catalan is spoken since always without interruption things are different.

  3. #443
    My Countship is not of this world Comte Arnau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B01AB20 View Post
    But things are like you say in Barcelona and other big towns where castillians immigrants and their descendants are majority and castillian language is prevailing, I think in medium and little villages where native catalans are the great majority and catalan is spoken since always without interruption things are different.
    I speak to almost everyone in Catalan. With those I notice it's their second/third language, I'm indulgent. But with the natives who commit mistakes, I'm a grammar nutsy.
    < La Catalogne peut se passer de l'univers entier, et ses voisins ne peuvent se passer d'elle. > Voltaire

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    Yo para ser feliz quiero un menhir. B01AB20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comte Arnau View Post
    I speak to almost everyone in Catalan. With those I notice it's their second/third language, I'm indulgent. But with the natives who commit mistakes, I'm a grammar nutsy.
    dales duro... s'ho mereixen.

    in my inner circle of friends... many are of castillian origins and castillian is their first language, but now they're indepes and conscious patriots it seems, and they speak catalan at rates never seen before.

    meanwhile one of these friends who is catalan de 'socarrel' speaks castillian with his mother because 'We've always done like that' .

    and I speak in catalan to a catalan chief I have, native catalan form Lleida, and he answers me in castillian because... who knows, they guy is a bit 'facha' I think and only speaks catalan with native catalan speakers, and he changes to castillian often and very easily, but I keep speaking catalan to him, solo pa' joder

    This's the normality in catalonia, a crazy and schizophrenic normality.

  5. #445
    Like Longbowman, but white Rudel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comte Arnau View Post
    2. Latin: FINE (AD) "with a limit at, up to"

    This is the origin for

    - Italian: fino (a) -- andare fino a Roma = go as far as Rome | fino alla fine dei tempi = until the end of time
    - Catalan: fins (a) -- anar fins a Barcelona = go as far as Barcelona | fins a la fi dels temps = until the end of time
    - Occitan: fins (a) -- anar fins a Tolosa = go as far as Toulouse | fins a la fin dels tempses = until the end of time
    - Swiss Romansh: fin -- ir fin Glion = go as far as Ilanz | fin la fin dals temps = until the end of time

    (It's also the origin for the word used in many other Romance languages of Italy)
    In a related usage, fin can be used in dialectal/vernacular French as "very", "utterly".
    ie. Il est fin con - "He's completely retarded".

    Quote Originally Posted by Comte Arnau View Post
    This is the origin for Old Occitan/Catalan/Aragonese forms entrò, tro, troa and the modern Aragonese/Gascon enta, entà, ta.
    Enta is pan-Occitan I believe.

    BTW I forgot to mention it, but the feminine article we refereed to earlier (Na in Catalan) existed here as Una.

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    Romanian languages are really the black sheep among Romance languages.

    Langues d'Oïl such as French have bizarre innovations, but you'll eventually get them, specially if you start to peep into older versions of the languages. I personally think the oddest ones among them are Walloon and Arpitan. Walloon because of its weird innovations and countless stages of change, Arpitan because of its unusual hybrid of d'Oïl and d'Oc features, plus individual innovations.

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    pardon me, but romanian doesnt sound romance at all to me, surely has words with latin roots, but it also has so many alien words, from old church slavonic and even turk/hungarian.

    example:
    Ceas - tempo/ time (hour) - other slav languages use Chas for time
    vreme - tempo/time - weather - Russian Vremya
    prietene - amigo/friend - prietel in bulgarian

    and so much more

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kriptc06 View Post
    pardon me, but romanian doesnt sound romance at all to me, surely has words with latin roots, but it also has so many alien words, from old church slavonic and even turk/hungarian.

    example:
    Ceas - tempo/ time (hour) - other slav languages use Chas for time
    vreme - tempo/time - weather - Russian Vremya
    prietene - amigo/friend - prietel in bulgarian

    and so much more
    Ora - tempo/time (hour) - we use ceas only for watch
    Vreme/Timp - tempo/time (weather) - both are used equally
    Prieten/Amic - amigo/friend - used both in equal measure as well

    For most of the slavic and "alien" words we have latin synonims which we mostly use in equal measure... it might depend on the region, some use those slavic words more than their latin synonims, in Moldavia for example.

    I understand how romanian doesn't sound latin to you, happens to me as well with portuguese.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MellowD View Post
    Ora - tempo/time (hour) - we use ceas only for watch
    Vreme/Timp - tempo/time (weather) - both are used equally
    Prieten/Amic - amigo/friend - used both in equal measure as well

    For most of the slavic and "alien" words we have latin synonims which we mostly use in equal measure... it might depend on the region, some use those slavic words more than their latin synonims, in Moldavia for example.

    I understand how romanian doesn't sound latin to you, happens to me as well with portuguese.
    but most of the time, you dont use those synonyms, I have some romanian friends and i like romanian music.

    Português é uma lingua latina, assim como o espanhol e italiano, todavia tem algumas influências alienigenas também. (PT)
    Portugués es una lengua latina, si como el español e italiano, sin embargo tiene algunas influencias alienigenas tambien. (ES)
    Portoghese è una lingua latina, così come lo spagnolo e l'italiano, tuttavia se ha alcune influenze aliene anche. (IT)
    All around me are familiar faces, worn out places, worn out faces
    Bright and early for the daily races, going nowhere, going nowhere

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    Yo para ser feliz quiero un menhir. B01AB20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kriptc06 View Post
    but most of the time, you dont use those synonyms, I have some romanian friends and i like romanian music.

    Português é uma lingua latina, assim como o espanhol e italiano, todavia tem algumas influências alienigenas também. (PT)
    Portugués es una lengua latina, si como el español e italiano, sin embargo tiene algunas influencias alienigenas tambien. (ES)
    Portoghese è una lingua latina, così come lo spagnolo e l'italiano, tuttavia se ha alcune influenze aliene anche. (IT)
    lol... in spanish 'alienigena' means 'extra-terrestrial', at least in normal context. In this case the correct word to use would be 'foraneas'. (foreigners)

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