Bell Beaker examples

[Anthropologique]

Archaeological evidence. Bell Beaker remains were primarily Dinaroid-Cromagnoid.



Bell Beaker populations did actually penetrate into the Balkans. No, it was not part of the Bell Beaker culture, but that Bell Beaker element did travel to the Balkans. Along with it came that basically Dinaroid-Cromagnoid element of the Bell Beakers. It is worth to mention that while the Bell Beakers also came to the Balkans, the Bell Beakers also were in Central Europe through which that Bell Beaker element has further influenced the Balkans.

http://www.bris.ac.uk/archanth/staff/heyd/Krakow1.pdf


They were influenced by it. I explain that above and I included a pdf which speaks of archaeological evidence of Bell Beaker presence in the Balkans.

To lay this down. The original statement was that Albanians are the population that is the closest to the old Bell Beakers in phenotype. The Bell Beakers were basically Dinaroid-Cromagnoid, therefore the premise is that for the Albanians to be close to the Bell Beakers by phenotype they would have had to be a basically Dinaroid-Cromagnoid population, which they are.

Western Iberia, where the oldest Bell Beakers sites are located, has many people with Cro-Magnon traits.

[Kanuni]

It's imposible to not left autosomal impact, when we are talking about 60-70% of paternal lineages in Western Europe ! In fact, there is a high correlation between R1b and the autosomal components like Western-Euro or Atlanto-Med

Wrong again.R1b has bigger diversity in Anatolia,don't make me use ad nauseum this arguments,and they lack the WestEuropean component.

The autosomal DNA can be diluted with couple of generation through breeding with local women.I don't see why it is impossible.

I know it is hard to accept that your grand grand grand father was a brown Anatolian annihilating the local people with a doner sword but anyway.

[Ibericus]

Wrong again.R1b has bigger diversity in Anatolia,don't make me use ad nauseum this arguments,and they lack the WestEuropean component.

The autosomal DNA can be diluted with couple of generation through breeding with local women.I don't see why it is impossible.

I know it is hard to accept that your grand grand grand father was a brown Anatolian annihilating the local people with a doner sword but anyway.

I never said that R1b is of european origin. What Im saying is that these R1b folk in Western-Europe , due to mixing with previous mesolithic populations and due to genetic drift, because W.Europe is a cul-de-sac, created their own autosomal components with time, such as the Western-Euro or Atlantic, otherwise explain me why these programs like Admixture creates these type of components in Europe, what are they made of if not R1b folk ??

[Panopticon]

Man, you are contradicting yourself. If the Bell Beaker populations penetrated into the Balkans, that means the Bell Beakers was not related to balkans.

I'm not even claiming that the Balkans was part of the Bell Beaker culture. And this doesn't contradict me at all, you would have understood that if you had understood anything to begin with. Yes, they penetrated into the Balkans, and due to selection of Dinaroid traits, the basic element of the Balkans (in particular Western Balkans) is Dinaroid.

Western Iberia, where the oldest Bell Beakers sites are located, has many people with Cro-Magnon traits.

That's not necessarily the same. Bell Beakers craniums were large, brachycephal and characteristically often with a flat occiput. As far as I know, that hardly exists in Iberia. The Bell Beaker being essentially Dinaroid has a close relationship to Dinarids.

If you don't understand what the other part is saying, we even discuss with him to begin with? You clearly have problems with what I'm saying because neither of you understood what I was talking about and you were basically arguing with straw-men.

[Anthropologique]

Archaeological evidence. Bell Beaker remains were primarily Dinaroid-Cromagnoid.



Bell Beaker populations did actually penetrate into the Balkans. No, it was not part of the Bell Beaker culture, but that Bell Beaker element did travel to the Balkans. Along with it came that basically Dinaroid-Cromagnoid element of the Bell Beakers. It is worth to mention that while the Bell Beakers also came to the Balkans, the Bell Beakers also were in Central Europe through which that Bell Beaker element has further influenced the Balkans.

http://www.bris.ac.uk/archanth/staff/heyd/Krakow1.pdf



They were influenced by it. I explain that above and I included a pdf which speaks of archaeological evidence of Bell Beaker presence in the Balkans.

To lay this down. The original statement was that Albanians are the population that is the closest to the old Bell Beakers in phenotype. The Bell Beakers were basically Dinaroid-Cromagnoid, therefore the premise is that for the Albanians to be close to the Bell Beakers by phenotype they would have had to be a basically Dinaroid-Cromagnoid population, which they are.

Are you saying that the Balkan region was influenced by Bell Beaker culture over time? What corpus of research is there that proffers evidence of a pattern of long-distance exchange between the core Bell Beaker peoples in the west and Balkan populations?

South-west Europe (Iberia and Southern and Western France) is majority Atlantic in phenotype, with some clear Paleo and CM influences (specifically in far western regions.) If the first Bell Beakers had a major Dinarid element, why do we find so little of it today in the Atlantic zone?

[Panopticon]

Are you saying that the Balkan region was influenced by Bell Beaker culture over time? What corpus of research is there that proffers evidence of a pattern of long-distance exchange between the core Bell Beaker peoples in the west and Balkan populations?

As I showed in the earlier post, there has indeed been archaeological evidence of the presence of Bell Beakers in the Balkans. That's not the point, however. The basic Dinaroid-Cromagnoid element that came with the Bell Beakers came to the Balkans, settled for the most part in the mountainous regions and the Dinaroid traits in particular were further selected for.

I'm not arguing that the Balkans were part of the Bell Beaker culture, although obviously influenced by it. I'm arguing that phenotypically, they have the elements that are the most similar to each other; Dinaroid in particular and Cromagnoid.

South-west Europe (Iberia and Southern and Western France) is majority Atlantic in phenotype, with some clear Paleo and CM influences (specifically in far western regions.) If the first Bell Beakers had a major Dinarid element, why do we find so little of it today in the Atlantic zone?

Because of selective pressures. Those traits weren't selected for in Iberia and are therefore not common. Ancestral genes don't correlate with phenotype.

[Anthropologique]

As I showed in the earlier post, there has indeed been archaeological evidence of the presence of Bell Beakers in the Balkans. That's not the point, however. The basic Dinaroid-Cromagnoid element that came with the Bell Beakers came to the Balkans, settled for the most part in the mountainous regions and the Dinaroid traits in particular were further selected for.

I'm not arguing that the Balkans were part of the Bell Beaker culture, although obviously influenced by it. I'm arguing that phenotypically, they have the elements that are the most similar to each other; Dinaroid in particular and Cromagnoid.



Because of selective pressures. Those traits weren't selected for in Iberia and are therefore not common. Ancestral genes don't correlate with phenotype.

Yes, selective pressures, of course. Still, it is puzzling that Dinaric types are today encountered so infrequently in Iberia, if it's true that the original Bell Beaker peoples were a blend of Dinarid and Cro-Magnon.

[Panopticon]

Yes, selective pressures, of course. Still, it is puzzling that Dinaric types are today encountered so infrequently in Iberia, if it's true that the original Bell Beaker peoples were a blend of Dinarid and Cro-Magnon.

I'm not completely sure, are you being ironic? Selection is always a very important factor, it's the most important reason as to why all different populations look like they do.

The examinations of Bell Beaker remains have shown that the Bell Beakers were in fact Dinaroid-Cromagnoid.

[Damião de Góis]

Bell Beakeroid (Dinaroid)

How do you know this? Bell Beaker culture are from 2800 – 1800 BC.

[Panopticon]

How do you know this? Bell Beaker culture are from 2800 – 1800 BC.

Examinations of skeletons from burial grounds done by several anthropologists.