Reform or withdrawal from the EU?

[Partiasn]

Exactly. And that's why you should stay out of European affairs. A European would know exactly what I am talking about.

I would not say that I am overly concerned at what Europeans do financially because it more or less does not affect my life.

On the other hand I am concerned with what happens to individual Germanic cultures.

At this point I do not like the idea of any group tying themselves to a sinking ship, and think that looking forward to what might happen in the future is a good idea.

On the other hand forcing a decision on any group or individual is not really what I believe in. So they are free to do as they see fit.

[The Lawspeaker]

I would not say that I am overly concerned at what Europeans do financially because it more or less does not affect my life.

On the other hand I am concerned with what happens to individual Germanic cultures.

At this point I do not like the idea of any group tying themselves to a sinking ship, and think that looking forward to what might happen in the future is a good idea.

On the other hand forcing a decision on any group or individual is not really what I believe in. So they are free to do as they see fit.

And that's exactly the problem. What do you think would happen to traditional local products (like Edammer cheese, for example) if all patents would be relinquished ? Let me tell you what would happen: the Chinese would take over everything.

[Albion]

I think that the EU cannot be reformed... and thus the Netherlands should withdraw. We can remain in the Common Market if we would join the EFTA first.

Maybe so, I suppose we'll see if it reforms over the next for years.

UKIP are correct about it being a token statement from the Tory party. Cameron has already promised a referndum.

I know what you mean, he isn't really for leaving the EU as he claims. That what he announced recently was just a lie, he used the vaguest language possible when talking about it - he doesn't want a referendum at all.

UKIP are basically just old fashioned Tories really.

I want a GIP version of the UKIP. Basically I share the position of Nigel Farage.

I always find it hilarious when he addresses the European Parliament, the stiff upper lip thing is soon forgotten.

[Graham]

I know what you mean, he isn't really for leaving the EU as he claims. That what he announced recently was just a lie, he used the vaguest language possible when talking about it - he doesn't want a referendum at all.

UKIP are basically just old fashioned Tories really.

Cameron has more in common with Tony Blair than the Tory back benchers who are practically UKIP.

[PetiteParisienne]

I pretty much agree with you entirely. Major reform is needed at the very least.

[Albion]

2)Reactivate the Françafrique networks and invest massively in Africa, giving up volontarilly such a rich land to the Chineses is stupid.

We should emulate this, help the Africans develop whilst doing well from the deal ourselves.

You already have that with cross nation Internet economy, It does not need a governing body to regulate it. And because of that there is no barrier for entry.

An internet economy based on trading physical goods is held back by red tape in each member state anyway. It is an area where the EU hasn't regulated it much yet.

Standards set by governing bodies, generally are both politically motivated and stall innovation. The EU is not needed for standards.

It does to an extent. When you have a lot of little countries there is a need to have similar standards with some things.

Also bad.
The only industries that will receive support is large centralized corporations, who don't give a dam about local industry or small business.
In fact they will do everything in their power to stamp it out. Which in the current energy decline world will hurt you further on down the road.

Well the money from CAP goes to farmers, not so much corporations.

That one you answered yourself.
"(although internal countries often still do that)."

I was speaking more of America and Russia as the external countries, Germany and France run the show within the EU whilst Britain and Poland veto everything.
[*]Trade agreements with most countries in the world that matter.

[Albion]

Does a Large, single market not bring about uncompetitive artificialness? Kind of what it's like now.

A centralised European Union, where the majority of countries slump.

In a way, yes. It means we don't compete as much with the rest of the world (free trade) but it also means our industries and workers are protected to an extent.

[Xenomorph]

From what I've read, the greatest problem of the EU is micromanagement of individual states. The EU should focus on promoting free trade, not telling countries had tomanage their own economic affairs. Greater military cooperation between EU members would be a good thing.

[Albion]

I think to keep the benefits of a large market (the reason we joined the EU in the first place) but get rid of the corrupt EU that we should join the EFTA as Tuan said.
Britain was a founding member but left when it was clear that the other major economies in Europe were in the EC.
But the EFTA and EU are essentially a single market now anyway since they have an agreement, so we'd get what we joined the EU for and ditch that corrupt organisation.

And all this crap we hear from the scaremongerers about losing political influence in Europe - what political influence? Its a Franco-German led affair.
The EFTA countries are some of the most prosperous, independent countries in the world. Furthermore if Britain joined then the EFTA would become attractive to other countries in Europe, some that haven't been able to join the EU or are against it. I think Turkey would likely follow Britain into the EFTA (Britain and America are attempting to court it) but it wouldn't be a problem as it would in the EU - the EFTA is all about trade. Also it is a large, expanding market to trade with.
With Britain in, the EFTA could then negotiate deals with many Commonwealth countries (1/4 of the world) and influence and help develop the poorer nations of the world whilst benefiting from it ourselves.

I think we should withdraw from the EU then, if it cannot be reformed to a more EFTA-like organisation then the EFTA is the logical answer. To reform it would probably take decades and be a massive task and maybe not possible.

[The Lawspeaker]

From what I've read, the greatest problem of the EU is micromanagement of individual states. The EU should focus on promoting free trade, not telling countries had tomanage their own economic affairs. Greater military cooperation between EU members would be a good thing.

Membership of the EFTA combined with a restoration of the Western European Union (a military alliance) would suffice. As soon as that is sorted out we can leave NATO and let America deal with it's own shit and in the meanwhile let the Eurocrats of Brussels suck a fat one too. Talk about hitting two birds with one stone.