Epicanthic fold

[Freomæg]

this beautiful Swedish girl.

She looks the spitting image of my girlfriend's sister, who is English. My girlfriend herself has brown hair and eyes and therefore not so much the typical Swedish look. Just goes to show how varied the phenotypes can be between siblings.

[Svarogstan]

I don't agree with that idea of there being two different kinds. You either have an Epicanthic fold or you don't. If it is something else then it is something else, not Epicanthus. Also, the picture was meant to show how it was different from the full asian and the half asian. As for the discussion of inner and outer folds, most asian's have both, but they aren't limited to having both. Europeans may develop "fat" or "skin" around their eyes that allow a semblance of an epicanthic fold, but it isn't the same thing, and it definitely doesn't have the same effect. Now Epicanthic folds could be different based on admixture, but that is just that, admixture.

I never said their were two different kinds I said they were different. If you had bothered to have read the other post (by Kadu and Karl) you would not have questioned what I had said.

The definition of canthus "The angle formed by the meeting of the upper and lower eyelids at either side of the eye."

"Epi" meaning on top off in Latin. Therfore an epicanthus is an eye fold of any sorts on the canthus of the eye. You can have an inner, outer or medial epicanthus. I said I had an outer epicanthus which is a fold on the temporal canthus of my eyes.

[Stefan]

What I meant was epicanthic or other eye folds are different in terms of type between races. If you had bothered to have read the other post (by Kadu and Karl) you would not have questioned what I had said.

Kadu posted this diagram.



Yes, there are different types of folds, but nowhere does it say that it is exclusive to one race. Actually, all of those can be found in "Asian" populations, including "no fold". I don't see how Karl's post is relevant. In Europeans, most Epicanthic folds are lost before adult hood. Sometimes due to many reasons, they aren't fully lost though, or somebody can develop one at an old age. Epicanthic folds are just an adaption of extra fat due to light and harsh weathering conditions. There is reason to believe that any "genes" for them were in the earliest of Humans, especially when you look at the Bushmen. It is only when the environment calls for it, that you would retain it, as well as later generations retaining them due to a high incidence. There are different types of Epicanthic folds, but none is exclusive to one race as you tried to point out.

[Svarogstan]

Kadu posted this diagram.



Yes, there are different types of folds, but nowhere does it say that it is exclusive to one race. Actually, all of those can be found in "Asian" populations, including "no fold". I don't see how Karl's post is relevant. In Europeans, most Epicanthic folds are lost before adult hood. Sometimes due to many reasons, they aren't fully lost though, or somebody can develop one at an old age. Epicanthic folds are just an adaption of extra fat due to light and harsh weathering conditions. There is reason to believe that any "genes" for them were in the earliest of Humans, especially when you look at the Bushmen. It is only when the environment calls for it, that you would retain it, as well as later generations retaining them due to a high incidence. There are different types of Epicanthic folds, but none is exclusive to one race as you tried to point out.

"Epicanthic folds are just an adaption of extra fat due to light and harsh weathering conditions"

I don't think that's true. Epicanthic folds are due to muscle weakness of the eyelid. If it were a true adaptation than there would have been a selective advantage for this which I would think impossible ie. people with an epicanthic fold would have survived longer (to reproductive age) than those without one!?? What could have killed the ones without it? retinopathy?...hardly.

[Stefan]

"Epicanthic folds are just an adaption of extra fat due to light and harsh weathering conditions"

I don't think that's true. Epicanthic folds are due to muscle weakness of the eyelid. If it were a true adaptation than there would have been a selective advantage for this which I would think impossible ie. people with an epicanthic fold would have survived longer (to reproductive age) than those without one!?? What could have killed the ones without it? retinopathy?...hardly.

I agree that weak muscles are the cause that bring the effect I mentioned - extra skin/fat around the eye. This weakness of the muscles is most likely caused by environmental adaption to weathering patterns(wind, storms) and/or the extra light in North Asia as well as other areas of the world. You could die from many ways, such as not being able to see as well as those with the folds in these harsh conditions.

[Svarogstan]

I agree that weak muscles are the cause that bring the effect I mentioned - extra skin/fat around the eye. This weakness of the muscles is most likely caused by environmental adaption to weathering patterns(wind, storms) and/or the extra light in North Asia as well as other areas of the world. You could die from many ways, such as not being able to see as well as those with the folds in these harsh conditions.

I think you are clutching at straws.

[Stefan]

I think you are clutching at straws.

Dare I plead against that thought? Really, there isn't a definite answer to the cause of Epicanthic folds, but it is mostly accepted that they are caused by intense light and cold. It isn't exclusive either in full or type to East Asians. I have no reason to be desperate in this discussion, nor would I choose to be. If I am wrong I will admit it. In this case, I can't be wrong because there is no right.

[Majar]

After comparing pictures of my own eyes to pictures of other Europeans' eyes, I have also come to the conclusion that I have either remnants of epicanthic folds or something resembling inner epicanthic folds. They are similar to Barreldriver's but maybe not quite as pronounced.

Epicanthic (mongoloid) folds have a completely different physiognomy to what your photo and Barreldriver's photos shows.

In the womb we all have eye folds. As the nasal bridge elevates in utero and from infancy to childhood, the fold is lost in most people. What is causing your, Barreldriver (and my) eyelids to have a fold is a low nasal bridge, whereas with Mongoloid folds the trait is not altered by the height of the nasal bridge. To illustrate this: singer Ken Hirai (who, despite appearances, is 100% Japanese) has a tall nasal bridge even by Caucasoid standards, yet he has epicanthic folds.

[Lulletje Rozewater]

I never saw it here, is there some other source in addition to wikipedia claiming it?

This is total misinformation...

Scandinavians are the ONLY European group to have the epicanthic fold. The other group is, and only is, Asian and Asian sub-races.

Scandinavians, as well, have it due to their Asian ancestry.

http://prueeuropeans.blogspot.com/20...thic-fold.html

[Fred]

She is/was never my girlfriend. I wasn't that lucky, and maybe too shy at that point.

You're not old or lucky enough to be with my married aunt, so cut it out...

That's why I wanted verification from the Scandinavians here.

Hmm.