How to Speak Proto-Indo-European

**Smaug** · 11-15-2012, 12:07 AM

Very interesting video:

[YOUTUBE]9jlcV7DYL3o[/YOUTUBE]

**Smaug** · 11-15-2012, 02:01 AM

For those interested, some .pdf files teaching PIE:

http://dnghu.org/pt/aprender%20indo-europeu/

**Vesuvian Sky** · 11-15-2012, 02:57 AM

From listening to the above reconstruction, PIE to me sounds very much like rather archaic Celtic and Germanic languages but also a bit like Latin. Makes sense though, since theoretically PIE was originally Kentum in nature and possessed hard velars.

All of the Old Celtic, Germanic and Italic languages were Kentum and many linguists consider them conservative in regards to their relationship to PIE in that they didn't deviate as much from it phono-tactically speaking like the Satem IE languages (Balto-Slavic but also Indo-Iranian, all significantly soft velar IE languages). I think linguists consider Old Germanic, Celtic and Italic languages phonotactically purer then other Kentum IE languages like Tocharian, Hittite and even Greek.

**Smaug** · 11-15-2012, 03:08 AM

Originally Posted by Vesuvian Sky

From listening to the above reconstruction, PIE to me sounds very much like rather archaic Celtic and Germanic languages but also a bit like Latin. Makes sense though, since theoretically PIE was originally Kentum in nature and possessed hard velars.

All of the Old Celtic, Germanic and Italic languages were Kentum and many linguists consider them conservative in regards to their relationship to PIE in that they didn't deviate as much from it phono-tactically speaking like the Satem IE languages (Balto-Slavic but also Indo-Iranian, all significantly soft velar IE languages). I think linguists consider Old Germanic, Celtic and Italic languages phonotactically purer then other Kentum IE languages like Tocharian, Hittite and even Greek.

Yes, I also believe it makes sense to believe that PIE was closer to Kentum languages than to modern Satem languages. We also have to take into considerarion that Satem spread through an area that was already well settled, while Kentum languages wiped out all, or at least most the Pre-PIE languages.

Of course that the Pre-PIE substratum left some influences on modern IE languages. There are many hypothesis like the Vasconic or even the Atlanto-Finnic theories, and these languages probably left some legacy on nowadays european languages.

On the other hand we have those who state that the Baltic languages, especially Lithuanian, and also the Indic languages like Sankrit, are the most well preserved, even though these languages belong to the Satem dialect.

**Vesuvian Sky** · 11-15-2012, 03:49 AM

Originally Posted by Uhtred

Yes, I also believe it makes sense to believe that PIE was closer to Kentum languages than to modern Satem languages. We also have to take into considerarion that Satem spread through an area that was already well settled, while Kentum languages wiped out all, or at least most the Pre-PIE languages.

Of course that the Pre-PIE substratum left some influences on modern IE languages. There are many hypothesis like the Vasconic or even the Atlanto-Finnic theories, and these languages probably left some legacy on nowadays european languages.

A curious case indeed in regards to the spread of IE languages into Europe proper depending on which theory one subscribes to. The alleged substratum languages and their influence on Germanic, Celtic, and Italic among other western IE languages has always been a rather elusive concept. I think there were other languages in Neolithic Europe in mass but they just lost out heavily to IE languages and were probably nearly obliterated. Only things we have left like you say are Vasconic but also Etruscan.

Originally Posted by Uhtred

On the other hand we have those who state that the Baltic languages, especially Lithuanian, and also the Indic languages like Sankrit, are the most well preserved, even though these languages belong to the Satem dialect.

They certainly preserve the grammatical aspects of PIE far better then the Kentum languages particularly the case structure of PIE which had like 7 cases I believe. Lexically, they may have persevered more PIE words but that is somewhat sketchy. However, they definitely lost the true phonotactic nature of PIE. Interestingly enough, Balto-Slavic languages are incompletely Satemized IE languages. This happened due to rather complex reasons IMO.

**rashka** · 11-15-2012, 03:59 AM

Why not put up some examples? I would like to add the Slavic (Serbian) input...
Most PIE words are also roots of Serbian words.

**Vesuvian Sky** · 11-15-2012, 04:26 AM

Originally Posted by rashka

Why not put up some examples? I would like to add the Slavic (Serbian) input...
Most PIE words are also roots of Serbian words.

Horse from PIE ekwhos
Latin: equus (represents Italic)
Old Irish: ech (represents Celtic)
Old English: eoh (represents Germanic)
Tocharian: yakwe
Lithuanian: esva (represents Baltic definitely and perhaps Balto-Slavic)
Sanskrit: asva (represents Indo-Aryan)
Old Persian: asa (represents Iranian)

Baltic loses the hard velars. While Latin and Old Irish preserves them better. In Slavic there is 'kon' but its not known if its derived from 'ekwon' or some other source.

King from PIE rek
Latin: rex
Old Irish: ri
Indo-Aryan: raj

Again, Latin preserves the hard velars of the PIE term better then the Satemized raj.

**Smaug** · 11-15-2012, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by Vesuvian Sky

They certainly preserve the grammatical aspects of PIE far better then the Kentum languages particularly the case structure of PIE which had like 7 cases I believe. Lexically, they may have persevered more PIE words but that is somewhat sketchy. However, they definitely lost the true phonotactic nature of PIE. Interestingly enough, Balto-Slavic languages are incompletely Satemized IE languages. This happened due rather complex reasons IMO.

Yes, grammatically Satem languages are closer to PIE, take a look on the Lithuanian language for example, it has preserved the 7 cases, and sone dialects have even 8 cases.

Of course that phonetically Kentum languages are more preserved, but some languages had their phonetic structure heavily changed, like English, French or German. I guess the most preserved language, phonetically speaking, is the Welsh language.

**Vesuvian Sky** · 11-15-2012, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by Uhtred

Yes, grammatically Satem languages are closer to PIE, take a look on the Lithuanian language for example, it has preserved the 7 cases, and sone dialects have even 8 cases.

Of course that phonetically Kentum languages are more preserved, but some languages had their phonetic structure heavily changed, like English, French or German. I guess the most preserved language, phonetically speaking, is the Welsh language.

English only has 2 cases now. German 6 though. Many sound shifts have also occured over the years.

Celtic languages in the general would probably preserve alot of the original PIE Kentum velar sounds. I think the most historically known IE language that preserved the original Kentum nature of PIE closest is Latin. But I haven't done a complete survey yet.

**Smaug** · 11-15-2012, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by Vesuvian Sky

English only has 2 cases now. German 6 though. Many sound shifts have also occured over the years.

Celtic languages in the general would probably preserve alot of the original PIE Kentum velar sounds. I think the most historically known IE language that preserved the original Kentum nature of PIE closest is Latin. But I haven't done a complete survey yet.

I also haven't done a complete survey, but based on some stuff I have read through these years, it seems to, at least, make sense. Also, if you listen to spoken Latin, you can get some of these velars sounds.