Why Are European Birth Rates Falling?

[Freomæg]

So many of our racial tragedy discussions incorporate concerns over low birth rates, but I thought it would be good to create a central discussion thread where we can focus on the issue of low birth rates and perhaps come to some conclusions as to why this might be happening.

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My belief is this:
Birth rates among indigenous Britons, Germans, Dutch - and most of Europe - are below replacement rate. We've watched our lands go from being prosperous first world nations with strong national and communal unity, to overcrowded, multicultural, debt-ridden, materialistic hell-holes. Whether conscious or subconscious, and even among those who are outwardly pro-multicultural, we have adjusted our procreation rates accordingly. I don't buy this crap about every potential mother being too wrapped up in their career, or Britons losing interest in family life. We're not having children because we can't afford a house and all the other things required to build a good family life. Our schools are becoming minority-white, our health system is struggling, job prospects getting worse and liberties being curbed. In short, it's a terrifying society to bring children into. Not for third-world immigrants, no, even with the state that we're in, Britain is an attractive place to raise families for people who are used to worse.

I say this mainly because these are the precise reasons myself and my girlfriend of 5 years are reluctant to have children, despite how much we'd love to start a family.

[Absinthe]

I don't buy this crap about every potential mother being too wrapped up in their career, or Britons losing interest in family life.

Oh dear, ironically enough, do you know that all my female friends suffer from the fact that they want to get married and have a family and most of Greek men are marriage-phobic?

For example, I have a friend who's 29 years old, good looking, successful and an interesting person, and he always complains about being single and not being able to find someone to sweep him off his feet.

I discuss with him about it and he makes it clear that he is interested in a relationship and not just casual sex, and that he really would like a companion instead of a decorative item.

Then what is the problem, you ask?

He says, "I am only hitting on girls who are 25 or younger, because as women reach 26 they start thinking about marriage and family and I don't want to be 'trapped' in a potential marriage situation!"

Can you see the irony here?

And the truth is, that in Greece, for every woman that doesn't want to have kids there's an analogy of two men who don't want to have kids.
Immaturity, fear of commitment, you name it.

As for Europeans in general.... I believe it is our Western lifestyle gone bad and people focusing too much on materialism, consumerism and competition, rather than the simpler values in life.

And I've also heard the following reasoning:

"I want to have kids but I can't afford it"

meaning that

"I can't afford to buy the latest brand clothes and Nike shoes in every new school season, and if I don't, what will his/her classmates say, they'll call my kid a "poor bastard" -and in effect, I'll feel like one".

[Brynhild]

The bottom line is, IMO, that the dream of owning one's land and putting a house on it is becoming only affordable for those who are prepared to borrow a shitload of money and risk foreclosure. Another problem is that families aren't the same sort of network they used to be, where you lived near mum and dad, had loads of aunties and uncles who could help out. Lots of people have to move away from home just to find work and they're increasingly isolated. If they are fortunate to have any at all, it isn't worth having any more than one or two. I know that in this day and age, having a family is expensive - at every stage of their development.

[Tabiti]

Life style is the main reason. First, you have to study to get proper job, often until 25-30, then you must work to make enough money to survive and care for children.

[Osweo]

OhFor example, I have a friend who's 29 years old, good looking, successful and an interesting person, and he always complains about being single and not being able to find someone to sweep him off his feet.

I discuss with him about it and he makes it clear that he is interested in a relationship and not just casual sex, and that he really would like a companion instead of a decorative item.

I thought you were talking about me until you said;

He says, "I am only hitting on girls who are 25 or younger, because as women reach 26 they start thinking about marriage and family and I don't want to be 'trapped' in a potential marriage situation!"

Cythraul brought up a good point with his general malaise idea. It can seem depressing now. The hell of immigration society and the new dog eat dog economy it's helped to create don't do us any favours. Historians don't take enough account of such psychological factors in scenarios of ethnic shifts, and I wonder how much role this sort of thing had in the switch from RomanoBritain to England, or Pictavia to Scotland, etc...

A lot of people have simply been unlucky in their circumstances, as in all times, but such a frequency of bad luck does point to underlying regularities. Without an immigration problem, I wouldn't even look on this all as too bad a thing. Behind safe borders, a population a quarter of the modern one or less could still happily transmit our national existence into the future, perhaps even more comfortably for the individuals involved, but nowadays... Ekh.

For myself, it's more or less my own fault. I've dillied and dallied about here and there, not bothering to put down any useful roots, and it's beginning to hit me. And yet I'm at a loss as to what to do from now on. That crippling indecision hardly makes me a decent proposition as husband, no matter how 'nice a guy' I am or whatever.

[Freomæg]

"I want to have kids but I can't afford it"

meaning that

"I can't afford to buy the latest brand clothes and Nike shoes in every new school season, and if I don't, what will his/her classmates say, they'll call my kid a "poor bastard" -and in effect, I'll feel like one".

I disagree with that. When I - someone whose rags are just about hanging together and therefore would ensure that my kid had similar non-materialistic values - say "I can't afford kids", I mean that I can't afford a home, I can't afford to homeschool right now or alternatively move to an area of the country where schools are less heavy on the multiculturalism and indoctrination. And I think that despite the extent of consumerism on Britain, there are actually a lot of young people in an identical position to me. And we've all seen recently how treacherous it can be to take on mortgage repayments, with foreclosures, debt and bankruptcy ruining so many families who previously thought they were secure. I won't risk doing that to my children.

[Absinthe]

I disagree with that. When I - someone whose rags are just about hanging together and therefore would ensure that my kid had similar non-materialistic values - say "I can't afford kids", I mean that I can't afford a home, I can't afford to homeschool right now or alternatively move to an area of the country where schools are less heavy on the multiculturalism and indoctrination.

I was basically talking about Greece, where most people own homes already and are also being helped by their families throughout their life span.

Situations are never ideal, but when they say "I can't afford kids" it really means that they view the kids as an extension to themselves showing off their fancy new cars, and it literally means "I can't afford the latest brands for my kid".

In Greece, the positive side about too much dependence on the family is that you'll hardly ever starve, end up homeless or be unable to find someone to keep your kids when at work. The family takes care of that with all the good and bad implications.

So, it really is about vanity and howing off and wanting your kid to be "the most well-dressed and envied kid in school"

That's why you don't see a single kid above 10 years old in Greece that doesn't already have a fancy mobile phone and a number of expensive and up-to-date gadgets as well.

[ikki]

How about there being just a whole lot less sex than there used to be?
http://www.theoccidentalquarterly.co...linTOQV6N2.pdf

[Freomæg]

That's why you don't see a single kid above 10 years old in Greece that doesn't already have a fancy mobile phone and a number of expensive and up-to-date gadgets as well.

Oh, I see . Yeah it's the same here of course. But, I think when young people first start to aspire towards building a future and a family, they start to reject that level of consumerism. They sacrifice it. Most people are still materialistic, but I refuse to believe that I'm alone in not wanting flash mobile phones, 49" widescreen TVs, brand new cars and expensive jeans.

[Æmeric]

How about there being just a whole lot less sex than there used to be?
http://www.theoccidentalquarterly.co...linTOQV6N2.pdf

I don't think so. Legalized abortion & easier availability to birth control have more to do with a decline in the birthrate. Sex no longers carries the possibility of pregnancy so sex has become more casual. This has as the effect of making many persons more irresponsible & unwilling to commit to longterm relationships. Oh, there is also easier means of obtaining a divorce though cohabitation outside of marriage is more acceptable (even expected before marriage) which negates the need to divorce. Secularism has played a large part in smaller faily sizes as the religous usually have more children. Expanded welfare systems which tax working families making it harder to have children while at the same time subsidizing the procreation of the worst parts of our societies. Many women have fewer children then they want because they have to work & daycare is an issue. The cost of housing has risen much faster then the rate of inflation. And then there are those third-world immigrants, helping to keep wages down & housing costs up.

One other reason not generally brought up in these discussions is urbanization. People who live in cities have always had fewer children then those who live in the country. It was only in the 19th century that most cities obtained a natural rate of increase high enough to guaranty their populations could grow without migration, the number of surviving children per woman being below 2 because of high infant mortality rates. But much of the growth was still from migration from the country.