Carinthian Plebiscite 1920

[Žołnir]

Carinthia suffers from Vindišar phenomenom. Slovene folk who denies Slovene or Slavic identity for that matter despite the fact they speak Slovene. Some of them think their "Windisch" is some kind of Germanic language becouse of some old Germanic words but really all Slovene redneck dialects have these words.

But whomever in Carinthia is greatest Slowener hater usually has most Slowene-Tschuschen surname himself. I blame it on geogrpahy and imense pressure from extreme nationalist German populace. Nič več porednih pavrov v Korutane....

So yeah brainiacs like this do exist en masse. Koroška heute svieta Neimška land.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VZqltxjwps

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RMfcMWycu4

Vindišars on the march; Sad especially about Gailtalers who have most archaic Slovene dialect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gn2HUXwiEOE

[noricum]

But whomever in Carinthia is greatest Slowener hater usually has most Slowene-Tschuschen surname himself.

True, but he same goes for many Slovene nationalists names. Einspieler, Rauch, Dr. Kaisersberger, Fischer, Lippold, Mayer, Sittig, Plapper, Rossmann, Blachmann, Sprachmann, Schuster, Rosenstein, Kramer to name a few leading Slovene nationalists from the early 20th century.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VZqltxjwps

Would you tell me how much does one who speaks only Standard Slovene understand of the Windisch in the video?

[Žołnir]

True, but he same goes for many Slovene nationalists names. Einspieler, Rauch, Dr. Kaisersberger, Fischer, Lippold, Mayer, Sittig, Plapper, Rossmann, Blachmann, Sprachmann, Schuster, Rosenstein, Kramer to name a few leading Slovene nationalists from the early 20th century.

Yes this is true. For example in Gailtal biggest Slovene patriots have surname Druml. Overal i don't mind people with Slovene surnames identifying as Germans. I also don't mind if Carinthia would stay Austrian as long as Slovene minority would stay healthy and not hated and assmilated by some (not all) neibourghs but i am sad this minority has collapsed so much. No doub blame is on both sides since Carinthian Slovenes didn't prove to be resiliant and daring enough.

True, but he same goes for many Slovene
Would you tell me how much does one who speaks only Standard Slovene understand of the Windisch in the video?

He could understand quite much probably however honestly Slovene dialects are extreamly diverse so yeah there might be obsticles for standard speakers which i can't spot since my Oberkrainer dialect is fairly similar to Carinthian but there are still some differences which otherwise don't neccesarly mean we can't understand general talking.

I am sad about Carinthian especially becouse it sounds great to me. At least the way old folk spoke. Nowdays there is clear German influence on Carinthian Slovene accent. Something that older people didn't have at least as far as from old video clip is noticeble. There were German words but not accent. Which is indicator most ppl speak German in daily life now.

Dialectical map;

http://www2.arnes.si/~gljsentvid10/o...lo_nar.jpg.gif

[noricum]

The main problem is that ethnic boarders are not like they may appear on a map, but rather like airbrushed-a continuum with a huge overlap reaching deep in both of our contries. Thus a "fair" boarder could never be installed. Not only Slovenes suffered during the last century, but also ethnic germans in todays Slovenia, one also must not forgett that.

My paternal great-grandmother worked as a waitress in Unterdrauburg/Dravograd (then Carinthia, now Slovenia) during the last years of the A-H monarchy and had quite a few illegitimate children. Having my DNA test results in mind, it is very likely my paternal great-grandfather was Slovene too. Because of the fact she didn't ever marry, all the children had her german lastname. So I've learned that just about a week ago.

Thanks for answering my question about the Slov. language. On a funny sidenote, not only the most archaic Slov. dialects can be found in Carinthia, but also the most archaic Bajuvarian dialects.

[Žołnir]

Well yeah there were German islands ofc most important Kočevarji. As for Carinthia most important German island was in modern Trevisio altho there were some others too. In towns ppl were often mixed often with German majority. Like Dravograd you mentioned for example. The rurals were majority Slovene.
I admit this map is extragerating and not entirealy correct on north border in Worthersee and there are few more German islands but in it's broader sense it is more or less correct. However in precise manner i think it is important to note there are different degrees in different times. For example there are two German colonisations, i think, first one medieval ethnically un-planed, non-nationalistic in modern sense and second in beginning of 19th century with rise of modern nationalist ideas in Europe.




Btw one interesting note. There was some German protestant traveler who documented Carinthia around 1800 it's interesting how he notes that in Klagenfurt folk mostly spoke Italian but could also speak German and/or Slovene. At least in this way he tries to present. I mean this dosent mean they were Italians but Italian was land of trade and culture back then. Similar records i found for Lublana (LJ).

When i find source again ill report in detail.

[Sigurd]

How can someone be Slovenian, who doesn't know the language nor identifies as such?

In May, I was in Rückersdorf work-wise for several hours on five consecutive days, and had the opportunity to speak to an elderly Slovene farmer. He mentioned that whilst less than 20% of the village spoke Slovenian these days, that they had all spoken Slovenian when he went to school. A lot of other, younger people were notable because they had only ever grown up with German, but they were still accustomed with old Slovene cuisine and that special type of Schnapps, they brew, Luše.

Where we were quartered at Seelach, part of St. Kanzian, which less than 10% Slovene, I also spoke about the topic to our host. He mentioned that he was from a German family but that essentially even in his day (he was in his early forties), both languages had to be known by the kids, as they'd go into the same school, and it was fairly evenly spread out.

He also mentioned the problem of some Carinthian Slovenes having worked in high positions for the Austrian state but then going back to pretend they knew no German. Finally he mentioned that there were a bunch of families who tried to make the cut in all occasions by continually changing names from let's say Eicher to Dobnik and then back to Eicher --- and vice-versa --- around the 1920 bracket.

Basically, most of the Slovenian-speaking population these days (and where both experiences listed above were made) is in the wider Völkermarkt district, already in the (exaggerated) map to be mentioned to be most likely Slovene. In most villages near the boundary there is a 10-15% minority. There is currently only one Slovene mayor, in Bad Eisenkappel, but even he speaks fluent German and he and his brothers have a choir which recite both German and Slovene folk songs.

The main problem is that ethnic boarders are not like they may appear on a map, but rather like airbrushed-a continuum with a huge overlap reaching deep in both of our contries.

Originally yes, but that is not restricted to the border between Slovenia & Carinthian, that happens at the "Inner-Styrian" border, too. You will find your 'Wratschko' and 'Mahorko' in the Austrian part and your 'Valdhuber' in the Slovenian part, so there was a continuum with overlap once upon time there too.

[Žołnir]

Well my map i gave is only extragerated in north of Wörthersee not as a whole Most northern area was Djex area. In Villach up to Köstenberg area and north of Wörthersee Krumpendorf and Pörtschach had Slovenes. In Gailtal up to Hermagor. On average area in Slovene colors most had around cca +/- 90% Slovene folk while some towns were around 10%-20% according to 1880 census but it was slowly lowering every year.

In May, I was in Rückersdorf work-wise for several A lot of other, younger people were notable because they had only ever grown up with German, but they were still accustomed with old Slovene cuisine and that special type of Schnapps, they brew, Luše.

Yes this is sad story.

[Corvus]

Well my map i gave is only extragerated in north of Wörthersee not as a whole Most northern area was Djex area. In Villach up to Köstenberg area and north of Wörthersee Krumpendorf and Pörtschach had Slovenes. In Gailtal up to Hermagor. On average area in Slovene colors most had around cca +/- 90% Slovene folk while some towns were around 10%-20% according to 1880 census but it was slowly lowering every year.




Yes this is sad story.

Villach is originally a town with a certain Slovenian influx
It also has a Slovenian name Beljak. But apart from Slovenian surnames or
Germanised Slavic names which you can find in abundance you notice almost nothing anymore.

[Žołnir]

Villach is originally a town with a certain Slovenian influx
It also has a Slovenian name Beljak. But apart from Slovenian surnames or
Germanised Slavic names which you can find in abundance you notice almost nothing anymore.

Ofc. Villach has Slav past since Slavs established themself here in migration era but overal i don't consider Villach part of Slovene area. Its a fact towns in Inner Austria were multicultural in middle ages and overal most medieval societies were not "monoethnic" and by end of 19th century Villach was wholly Germanic in all manners apart for some ofc. But villages south of Villach were Slovene historically nowdays mostly not. For example village of Hart or Ločilo in Slovene and Vočilo in dialect used to be Slovene majority now only 1 family.

[Alenka]